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Extremist views in dancehall

Posted by El FLEXIMIX D'choco 
El FLEXIMIX D'choco
Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 12:35PM
[www.washtimes.com]

As some of you may know The Netherlands has been in a state of a crisis since a filmmaker critical of Muslims got machine-gunned and slaughtered in broad daylight recently..since then tit for tat mosque & church burnings etc (at least 20 attempts so far)...strangely it was an arty movie about (mis)treatment of women that triggered the murder & not the guy calling ultra religious muslims goat f*ckers in public. Anyway - the vibe is tense here.

The vibe already got worse with the right wing politician pim fortuin (assassinated by animal rights activist) opening the can of worms. I noticed the vibe got much worse towards foreigners after..

The US administration hasn't helped ease tensions in the World in general either by its F-you, we will attack who we like and do what we want and if you don't like it YOU"RE NEXT!

Nor do extremist religious leaders fanning the fires of their gullible followers around the globe.

So the point is seeing the vibes on some dancehall reggae oriented forums where its all:
'BUN DEM
FIYA BUN PON EVERYTHING
BUS 25,000 UZI SHOT
KILL DEM ALL
KILL YOU ME DEM - OMNICIDE
KILL ALL BATTYMAN
etc etc '

Strikes me as bizarre how extreme attitudes & vibes from a small local scene filter out into the World influencing impressionable youth in Europe, USA etc..

Personally I find it so booooooooooooorrrrrrrrring really.
Maybe mildy amusing in a reality TV, Jerry Springer shock factor kind of way for about, oh 5 seconds..
But for me its turned into ho-hum.

Why is everything getting more 'extreme' no matter where you look?

Where are the dancehall artists getting a change of heart and deciding to spread a message of peace, understanding and reconciliation instead? (not that I personally think they should - each to his own..but I just wonder where are they..)

Why is it that some dancehall artists who would appear to be some kind of informal religious leader turn around & the next thing you hear is some slack vibe. What does that say about the character? Only in it for the money and bling?

Some food for thought today..

BAck to work for me,

l8tr,

FLEX
El FLEXIMIX D'choco
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 01:06PM
BTW - there is a Nationwide informal vote going on for the 'greatest all time' Dutchman & leading the race is the assassinated, foreigner hating right wing politician Pim Fortuin (BTW - in a peculiarly Dutch twist he was also openly gay..had he not been shot I think he could well have been voted prime minister / president (!) ) , above people like Van Gogh, Rembrandt etc:

[www.telegraaf.nl]

What a bunch of bsh*t..

The country is going down the tubes...

More responsible reggae artists spreading a positive message please!

(BTW - what I hear is this style of reggae is massively on the decline from people who sell the records & promote the concerts!)
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 01:28PM
Chocomeister!

Heee gozer!

Was it you that sent me the link to Matisyahu?
El FLEXIMIX D'choco
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 01:54PM
No - who is that , the Israeli nuke whistle blower guy?
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 01:58PM
Er no, lol!

He is a hasidic reggae singer. I went to paris to catch his show and interview him last week.

His first CD is great, but could do with improved production values.
El FLEXIMIX D'choco
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 02:09PM
Oh that guy - I posted info on the BAF site a while back but didn;t email direct.
I saw a report on TV here & couldn't believe what I was seeing / hearing at 1st
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 03:40PM
He is an extremely talented performer. Played to 300 people in a small paris venue. At times like Sizzla! Also he had a crack local band behind him who are not as lazy as some of the typical!
Reggaemusicstore
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 06:34PM
Choco, I think the issue of "fyah bun" as preached by Bobo Dreads is quite different from the dancehall mentality of "bussing shot" etc. As I understand it, the fyah bun philosophy is not to be taken literally & is used as a metaphor for the desire to cleanse the wicked aspects of humanity/society. Neither is it anything new, as you can hear plenty of references to this even in 70's reggae. I think the thing which created a hype around it was when the new breed of militant bobo artists emerged in the past decade, and their fyah bun statements became one of the more visible aspects of the movement. And on the subject of bobo dreads, it's a little known fact that Prince Alla was actually one of the first bobo artists & spent a period in the early 70's living at the bobo camp.....
El FLEXIMIX D'choco
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 07:30PM
Hi RMS - yeah I mean the more recent fiyah bun vibe which seems more of an extreme vibe, as opposed to the more metaphorical 70's vibe.
The modern bobo dudes would be happy to know in Holland there's lots of fiyah bun 4 real going down with churches & mosques..
Someone cuts you off in traffic - fiyah bun!
You wake up in the morning to find coffee is used up - fiyah bun!
Maybe someone could market a new reggae-themed product at the SNWMF:
some kind of filled veggie bun with hot sauce called a 'fiyah bun'..
?
Cheers,
El FleXdaMix
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 07:35PM
>still need those dub fyah 7'z i*dren* -RASpects+ (2of-each)
Reggaemusicstore
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 07:55PM
Choccy, I really don't think the current fiyah bun thing is meant to be taken at face value, altho' it probably is being used in the wrong way by some dancehall artists who are a million miles removed from the bobo camp & will add it to the recipe of their generally aggressive lyrics.... y' know, a spoonful of kill battyman here, a generous dollop of lick shot in a bwoy face there, and liberally peppered throughout with bun this & bun that....
El FLEXIMIX D'choco
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 08:33PM
<y' know, a spoonful of kill battyman here, a generous dollop of lick shot in a bwoy face there, and liberally peppered throughout with bun this & bun that...>

RMS - I think you have hit on the winning formula here ,
I am gonna add a pinch of punanny to the mixture & watch sales skyrocket!
Ladeez and gentlemen: once again the online tagteam comes up with the commercial one-two knockout punch 4 U..
Make your own dancehall hit in 4 easy steps!
Spammers delight!
Cheers,
Flex de Uzi choc
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 08:42PM
In the Bible "Fire" is indicitive of the Presence of the Almighty. The way I overstand it, bringin the Fire upon this and upon that is bringing the Almighty to these concepts. In the case of "bun Boogaman" this is bringing the word of God against the act of homosexuality, not the man or woman. We have had many a chat upon this and I feel as though this truth is being lost. Anyone who advocates, or turns there head to violence being perpetrated on ANY other group, the Fiya will Bun You OUT!!!!SLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEWWWWW DDDDDEEEEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!
Reggaemusicstore
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 09:13PM
Ninjacat I'd agree with your reading of the true intention behind this. Choccy, didn't I say it was gonna be a prosperous new year? And by the way Choc, in case you're not yet acquainted with Jahmeek (see his post(s) in this thread), he's one of that rare breed of people in the US who fly the flag for UK roots/dub; reading between the lines of his post I'd say he wants to put some dollars in your hand so check him out.....
BMC
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 10:51PM
Choco, did you see / hear the final result of the greatest Dutch person of all time?
Pim Fortuyn! Can't believe Pim Fortuyn won! I wouldn't call him 'foreigner hating' as you did, but that's a discussion I'm not getting into anymore, that's a closed chapter. Thing is ofcourse that it is ridiculous that he is voted as the greatest Dutchman of all time. Unbelievable.
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 10:52PM
Who would be your candidate, BMC?

One love,

Rootz
BMC
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 10:56PM
Willem van Oranje
BMC
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 11:07PM
Thing is though, that it's not so easy to choose one and I also think it's a kinda stupid election in the first place, because I don't think there is a THE greatest Dutchman. What I do know is that if I had to choose, in my opinion many many meant more for this country than Fortuyn, who imo only briefly opened the discussion about the current politics, but was soon after that sadly assissinated and the discussion never led to any significant change. This election is imo quite clearly led by emotional memories of Fortuyn and the sad end of his life and not so much by achievements and what he did for the country.
El FLEXIMIX D'choco
Re: Extremist views in the area
November 15, 2004 11:10PM
[www.telegraaf.nl]

OH MY GAWD - BMC you are right, he 'won'...370,000 'voted'.
The people have spoken.
That is un f-ing believable...
that seals it for me. the final straw.
I am OUTTA here..
Holland is a broken egg which cannot be fixed humpty dumpty stylee.
Sorry Dutchmen but I just cannot deal..
l8tr,
Flex de choc
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 11:13PM
new zealands very nice this time of year chocco, very cheap to live, labour government (not like UK Labour Govt) & reggae is very popular smiling smiley
mark b
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 11:19PM
Can any of you nutters see where this is going?
BMC
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 11:26PM
Sounds great, giab! Is there a university there with a theoretical chemistry section and some modern fashion-company so my girlfriend can keep on working as a designer? If so, New Zealand here we come!

Well....., maybe. :-)
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 11:28PM
yes & yes
I'm buying a sofa bed for the spare room this week, so you might be in luck Marc
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 11:31PM
People are getting more extreme because the attacks on their native cultures are getting more extreme.
BMC
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 11:39PM
Cool. How is the spare room isolated from sound, Nick? You know, for those bass-sounds in dem UK productions you'll probably be blasting!?
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 11:41PM
What is a native culture?

One love,

Rootz
mark b
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 11:41PM
The sh*t dj Music is selling s*it
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 11:44PM
Using a lotta asterisks tonight, Mark?

One love,

Rootz
mark b
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 15, 2004 11:47PM
Yeah rootzilla just back from pub,no offence
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 12:05AM
native culture = one existing in a given country, indigenous to those who live there.
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 12:13AM
How long does a culture need to become native? I would make a somewhat informed guess that almost every culture out there today has replaced something that was there before.

One love,

Rootz
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 12:15AM
Put it this way Rootz, back a dog into a corner and eventually it will lash out and try to bite you.



fourtwentyplenty
El FLEXIMIX D'choco
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 12:18AM
I don't see where there's any indigenous cultures left in Europe?
Except for maybe the Laplanders & Inuit up North.
oh yes - and 'Essex man'...fe true.
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 12:19AM
rootz, you're missing the point. Muslims want to have their beliefs respected in their native countries, especially where 90% of the population follows the same belief system. Carribean cultures are no different.
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 12:20AM
I'm not arguing about the basic idea, 420, but I just feel you have to be very careful with terms and ideas like 'native culture'. I'm not sure the 'native cultures' are treated any worse today than at any other time but yeah, they don't have anyplace to go anymore as the eathr is ppretyt much occupied, so your metaphor of being cornered is fitting.

One love,

Rootz
mark b
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 12:21AM
All due respect chimino give it a rest
El FLEXIMIX D'choco
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 12:21AM
Anyway - now I had a little reasoning with my neighbour the Twilight Circus guy, he *agreed* to shelve that gothic Jamaica guns & punanny dancehall album he's been working on all year with liner notes by Charlie Mattrass and pics by Peter Dean Rickarts. 50 grand US down the tubes but he doesn't care! Viva the good vibe revolution and pass the daisies!
Flex de ChoC
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 12:22AM
mark, tell it to those who keep creating these topics.
mark b
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 12:25AM
Strickly no disrespect
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 12:28AM
C'mon Rootz, most of us don't have masters degrees in Anthropology so I think we can dispense with the anal vocabulary critiques.


fourtwentyplenty
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 12:33AM
Same to you Chimino (didn't see your post when writing the last one): I'm not arguing about the general idea. It's just that terms like 'native culture' require certain amount of definition and care if there is to be any sensible conversation.

"Muslims want to have their beliefs respected in their native countries, especially where 90% of the population follows the same belief system."

True 'nuff. I agree, and I strongly disagree with the current Northern Atlatic orthodoxy of fixing everything by importing our practises wholesale. But it's equally valid to ask, what about that 10%? Such as Kurds? Moreover, even if a Muslim country has a Muslim leadership, it still does not mean the leadership enjoys popular support. So IMO 'native' or 'original' or 'iindigenous' have relatively little relevance, as opposed to what effect any given culture has on people living under it's scope of influence.

One love,

Rootz
El FLEXIMIX D'choco
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 12:49AM
<mark, tell it to those who keep creating these topics.>

What topics might those be?
Personally I find extremist views in dancehall a subject worthy of discussion,
as an indigenous Earth humanoid ,reggae fan & SNWMF attendee (once so far).
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 01:03AM
The battyman subject has been beaten to death lately. It comes down to foreigners wanting to control subject matter performed locally in JA & surrounding countries. As far as I can tell, Buju Beenie Ele Kartel etc do not perform their anti-gay tunes when on tour in Europe or California nor are the tunes much released for sale in those markets. The anti-battyman tunes are written & performed for the locals, so I don't see the threat being there to those in Cali or Europe that the GLAAD types claim.
mark b
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 01:07AM
It does not matter if they have the courage of their conviction.No they dont.
El FLEXIMIX D'choco
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 09:59AM
<The battyman subject has been beaten to death lately.>

Pun intended here?

< It comes down to foreigners wanting to control subject matter performed locally in JA & surrounding countries.>

Oh Ok

< As far as I can tell, Buju Beenie Ele Kartel etc do not perform their anti-gay tunes when on tour in Europe or California>

I guess they don't anymore

< nor are the tunes much released for sale in those markets.>

umm, records get exported abroad..

<The anti-battyman tunes are written & performed for the locals, so I don't see the threat being there to those in Cali or Europe that the GLAAD types claim.>

Umm, it spreads a message of hate and influences impressionable young minds, some who may not be swift enough to think for themselves..

Anyway my point was not only the 'Kill battyman' stuff but also 'Bus 100 million shot an dem head' Bun Dis Bun Dat..and generally: 'KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIL'.

Its like some kind of coked-out NWA vibe..Gothic Jamaica.

Is there much difference between some extremist Bobo dancehall tune and say Jerry Falwell or some extreme Islamist Imam?

Just food for thought...
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 10:03AM
"Umm, it spreads a message of hate and influences impressionable young minds, some who may not be swift enough to think for themselves.."

Thank you.

"Is there much difference between some extremist Bobo dancehall tune and say Jerry Falwell or some extreme Islamist Imam?"

Not much. The Imam has turban but not dreadlocks, I guess.

one love,

Rootz
El FLEXIMIX D'choco
Re: Extremist views in dancehall
November 16, 2004 10:11AM
and the answer to the above question is:

The difference is Jerry Falwell has the ear of the President of the United States!

smiling smiley
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