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Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)

Posted by Chimino 
Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 18, 2004 08:19PM
This comment was in the Jahmeek thread:

Author: jbwelda (205.225.207.---)
Date: 12-17-04 17:08

and if it wasnt for rasta, none of you (us) would have ever heard of reggae.

one love
jah bill
------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought about this for awhile & decided it simply isn't true. Yes, reggae blew up on the int'l scene with the Wailers, and they were Rasta by that time, but Rasta didn't make reggae international. It took foreigners (and I suppose the motivation of Bob & Peter) to do that.
Plus many of the younger generation (including myself) got into reggae in the 1990's, because of post-Rasta era dancehall artist like Shabba & Supercat.
No dis to the Rasta faith, but it is not responsible for reggae's international following.
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 18, 2004 09:34PM
>i* support bill here on dis commit & would like to further dat notion on to all dem fashion dreads. if it was not for rasta iNi would be inna world of trouble with expression zeen. praize the elders for meking the positive way for iNi today! with-out dem none of dis would be & people would still be dragged by the bumbers of cars by their locks & reggae music would be groups like culture club & ace of base with members who glue dem hair carrying no foundation.
nuff RASpects everytime!
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 20, 2004 06:43PM
you cant possibly believe that the music without the message could ever have had such a powerful influence on the world? Even dub will drop just one word a lot "JAH" the influence on other music may be different but none the less. The downfall in reggae/dancehall is when these racist fools take the music (kings music) and start talking some crazy non-sense about burning gays etc when sellassie never said that. You arent going to find a truly successful act in reggae/dancehall that has departed rasta... even at their worst suckas like sizzla still hail up the most high.
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 20, 2004 09:15PM
I see your points, reggae is message music yes but there are plenty of conscious artist who are not Rasta. Jahrico what do you mean by racist?
jbwelda
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 20, 2004 10:12PM
what i meant by my original statement was that its a fact that we know reggae thanks to bob marley, even if he wasnt our direct influence, he is why attention was brought to the music that was basically sufferers music in some far off hell hole of a ghetto. he was popular to a large degree because of his connection to rastafari and more to the point, by smoking herb...i believe that is why many if not most people first started listening to reggae, its acceptance of herb smoking. if it had not been for him being famous, and i credit that as much to his being a rasta and its own connections as for his music per se, because it (a rastafarian) was a unique and revolutionary thing at the time, none of us would even know reggae. how many of us has been into the ghettos of kingston before bob marley was known? i would wager, none. how many of us over the age of 40 sat around listening to ken boothe, alton ellis, d brown (and those were me more "commercial" guys, what about the roots trios making one-off records?) before we had heard of bob marley? again, i would say close to none.

therefore i stand by my statement...if it were not for rasta we would not have heard of reggae at all. that might be slightly different in the UK but in the USA i think im pretty close to the mark.

one love
jah bill
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 20, 2004 10:22PM
Just like if it weren't for Adidas and Godfather hats and the 3 guys that wore them we might never have heard of Hip Hop, Seen? After all how many of us were kickin it up in the South Bronx watchin the power from the street lights pushing the turntables, not many I would think
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 21, 2004 12:15AM
Ok Bill I see your point, yours too Ninja (tho hiphop is our country's music, so not quite the same). True, if not for the 70s universalist message by Bob, Americans would've discovered reggae thru the hiphop generation of the 90s instead.
Bob also changed many peoples perceptions of Rasta (believers and non) thru his One Love philosophy, wheras up to that point Rastafari was strictly aimed at the African Diaspora in the West and not embraced by foreigners before Bob.
solid rock
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 21, 2004 12:19AM
Author: TR-808 (---.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net)
Date: 07-20-04 16:02


A Brief History of Bluebeat

This is the true story of the early pioneering days of Ska and Reggae. In the early sixties a new sound was created in Jamaica and the domination of calypso on the West Indian music scene had ended.

A few copies of this new music were brought over to England by immigrants and record producer Siggy Jackson heard an acetate (prime cut disc) at a Jamaican party and was most impressed. There was no real name for this new and unique sound, but most Jamaicans called it "Jamaican Blues". Siggy, who in those days ran a small record company in London, created a new label calling it Blue Beat. The first record under this banner was: "Boogie Rock/Heavenly Angel" by Laurel Aitken. Soon a string of Blue Beat records followed, such as Keith & Enid's "Worried Over You", The Folks Brothers, Higgs & Wilson, Blue Rivers, etc.

The music spread to all the dancing clubs, now called discos and was widely adopted by the scooter riding "mods". A new sound was here made popular entirely by the disco D.J.'s. Not one air play could be heard, not one Ska or Blue Beat record could get into the charts in the early sixties, although outselling many records in the charts. Why? Because Ska outlets were not shops who qualified for the chart returns.

The mods were dancing in blue beat skirts (down to the ankle affairs) and the lads were sporting blue beat hats (small brimmed [sic] trilbies.) One of the greatest exponents of Ska was D.J. Mike Quinn, in those days famous for his TV programme "A Whole Scene Going" and pounding the Ska at the "Marquee" club in London, where many a star was born. The music now known widely, has created a number of stars: Laurel Aitken, Prince Buster, Derrick Morgan, Blue Rivers, Desmond Dekker and many others.

By the late sixties the compelling fast beat of the Ska mellowed and Reggae was born. Bob Marley dominated the scene and his early death was a tragedy to music lovers, everywhere. Laurel Aitken came to England and teamed up with Siggy Jackson. Laurel, a fine musician (he was born in Cuba), composed and performed many a hit and to this day is going strong doing gigs all over the world. Another fine line-up of versatile musicians was The Pyramids, who began their music life as The Bees. They were Prince Buster's backing group and were great exponents of Ska music. The Headquarters of Ska was the Blue Beat office in Earlham Street, in London's Soho, opposite the late Joe Blum's boxing gymnasium.

Every day many Ska and Reggae disciples congregated there just to listen to the latest releases. Even, the then heavyweight boxing champion of the world, Sonny Liston, was there on most days taking a breather from training. Other record companies were now releasing Ska/Reggae records. New groups sprang up like mushrooms. From the popular TV show, "Oh Boy", the famous "Lord Rockingham XI's" sax player Red Price formed a group called "The Blue Beats". There was the unusual talent and voice of "Girl Satchmo" and a young girl with the name of Bond sang "I'm a Blue Beat Baby".

It was all great fun. Even the recording sessions, though serious, were fun. There was a tremendous atmosphere in the studio, clouds of smoke, a little Jamaican Rum and a bass beat, to make the producer and engineer bounce in their seats to the rhythm of the Ska. The odd journalist and the closest fans of the group and recording artist were "giving it all" - dancing to the infectious beat. Those were the days ...

--

Delroy Sion Eccles from the liner notes of the CD, "The History of Ska, Blue Beat, & Reggae: Volume 1" by Esoldun, France, LG2-1063




Reply To This Message
jbwelda
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 21, 2004 05:27AM
>Americans would've discovered reggae thru the hiphop generation

there would be no "hiphop generation". none of its precedents would be there.

one love
jah bill
jbwelda
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 21, 2004 05:33AM
i might have gone a little overboard on that last...but the fact remains, most of the hip hop people were directly influenced by kool herc and grandmaster flash and africa bambatta and the whole thing that grew out of that.

one love
jah bill
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 21, 2004 05:40AM
Yeah I know, reggae influenced the world. My original point was that Jamaican music would've become known other ways than the Wailers if there was no Rasta. By the time Shabba took over there was very little if any roots connection to the new form of reggae taking over the world (same with Kool Herc).
jbwelda
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 21, 2004 04:53PM
i dont agree. i dont think there would have been a shabba ranks either. or at least we never would have heard of him.

oh well. its one man against the world.

one love
jah bill
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 21, 2004 04:59PM
they would have said "What is a Shabba?"
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 21, 2004 08:49PM
jah bill-
i think that bob's music *might* have reached int'ly regardless of his faith. yes, he wanted to spread the word of rastafari to the 4 corners, but i imagine he wanted his music to bust as well, and that he would have wanted to sell millions of records regardless of his faith. most poor ghetto youths hoping to make a living through music would dream this, i imagine. he was a man with amazing presence, charisma and draw, and i'm sure he smoked weed before he sighted rastafari, and so we foreigners would still have had the opportunity to check him further after hearing a pro-ganja tune. he probably would have had a tune or two about it, just on the cultural level, not just the religious level, unless it was his devout rasta faith that made him so very pro-pot. i'm not sure why the rasta part is what made him an international figure, although i cannot deny that his locks might have made him a curiosity to many willing to check things further. so maybe on that level you're right. i don't know. probably should have pondered this further before posting, but oh well--i'm bored at work!
what do you think about these thoughts? honestly, now i think you may be right. was his presence and charisma alone enough for blackwell, or did rasta play a part in blackwell's decision to push for him? (as in he realized this would be a curiosity too many abroad and attract potential fans).

m.

Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 21, 2004 09:02PM
I imagine that Blackwell's actions were prompted by the potential to capitolize on the reggae scene in the UK, rather than an interest in promoting Rastafari.
From what I have read, the interest in music from JA was already thriving in the UK prior to Blackwell signing the Wailers. He knew that he could make a grip of money with Bob, Peter, and Bunny's talents, and he went for it.

I wonder how long reggae would have lasted as Jamaica's top sound, if it was not for the commercial success of the Wailers internationally?
Would the next generation of artists still have aspired to be reggae singers and DJs, if the market had not been blown wide open by the Wailers? Or would sizzla have grown up to be a shoe salesman? -MK
jbwelda
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 21, 2004 09:06PM
chris blackwell pushed a lot of artists that went nowhere. i dont think it was chris blackwells promotion that did it; i think it was that bob marley was not only a good songwriter and performer but that he had something unusual to offer: his religion, a religion that encouraged what we were doing anyway: smoking herb. i think those things combined to make him who he became and if you took away the thing that many people identified with more than any other, herbs, you would have just had yet another singer from the ghetto who would probably not get much of anywhere on the international scene, and none of us would have heard of reggae or rastafari. that was my main point way back there.

case in point: how far did danny simms get with the clean cut, r&b version of bob marley?

one love
jah bill
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 21, 2004 09:22PM
yeah, kinda what i started wondering at the end of my post. i'm thinking you are right. hard knowing but fun to speculate.

have a great holiday season, jb.

m.

Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
December 21, 2004 09:43PM
Is it safe to say that most people who listen to Bob Marley might ask, "what is a Rastafari?" or sing "Taxi Bus movement of the people" Rasta was the inspiration and the strength behind the Wailers but I am not sure if it alone is responsible for the success of Regae Music. World circumstances and the dawn of radio/televison programs like American Banstand and others in concert with the 60's and 70's political situation made this fertile ground for the emergence of Reggae. Don't discount Desmond Dekker and man called Joe Higgs
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
February 21, 2006 08:42AM
Re:phil
I can't coment on that,what is Rastafari, but what I think of the regae music is that is a very nice music, its artists are very cool people with disipline,peacefull,loving and respectfull indeed.The only thing which worries me is that those artists who left behind are not more comitted to avoid these music not to colapse, like the others who passed away,some other people says regae music is going to die but I'm still believe in that one of the late artist said "Rastas Never Die" not to mean that the artist is not going to die,he means that "The rastas's music is not going to be out of fashion,would always be the best" my only advice to all the regae musians who still alive must pull up their socks,stand firmly to these music,work hand-and-hand to this industry BROTHERS and SISTERS work hard we injoy your music a lot, I'm talking about:Bunny Wailer,Burning Spear,Jimmy Cliff,Don Carlos,Sly Dunbar,(SA)Lucky Dube,Maxi Priest,(Ivory Coast)Alpha Blondy,and The Marley Family,as well as Tosh Family.and many more not being mansion here "STAND UP FIGHT FOR YOUR MUSIC and Your Right" we'll support you ALL.Wish happy and Loving NEW YEAR (2006)
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
February 21, 2006 08:58AM
Re:phil
I can't coment on that,what is Rastafari, but what I think of the regae music is that is a very nice music, its artists are very cool people with disipline,peacefull,loving and respectfull indeed.The only thing which worries me is that those artists who left behind are not more comitted to avoid these music not to colapse, like the others who passed away,some other people says regae music is going to die but I'm still believe in that one of the late artist said "Rastas Never Die" not to mean that the artist is not going to die,he means that "The rastas's music is not going to be out of fashion,would always be the best" my only advice to all the regae musians who still alive must pull up their socks,stand firmly to these music,work hand-and-hand to this industry BROTHERS and SISTERS work hard we injoy your music a lot, I'm talking about:Bunny Wailer,Burning Spear,Jimmy Cliff,Don Carlos,Sly Dunbar,(SA)Lucky Dube,Maxi Priest,(Ivory Coast)Alpha Blondy,and The Marley Family,as well as Tosh Family.and many more not being mansion here "STAND UP FIGHT FOR YOUR MUSIC and Your Right" we'll support you ALL.Wish happy and Loving NEW YEAR (2006) Ninjacat wrote:

> Is it safe to say that most people who listen to Bob Marley
> might ask, "what is a Rastafari?" or sing "Taxi Bus movement of
> the people" Rasta was the inspiration and the strength behind
> the Wailers but I am not sure if it alone is responsible for
> the success of Regae Music. World circumstances and the dawn of
> radio/televison programs like American Banstand and others in
> concert with the 60's and 70's political situation made this
> fertile ground for the emergence of Reggae. Don't discount
> Desmond Dekker and man called Joe Higgs
matt
Re: Rasta & Reggae (spinoff thread)
February 21, 2006 02:32PM
since rasta is a strong part of jamaican culture, then it really matters little wether or not bob was a rasta as far as his music gaining popularity. i have a large group of friends who only had ever heard bob before, and so i played them tons of other artists. they liked bob better because they liked the more full, polished "americanized" sound of his music. i would venture to say that the fact that he had access to a more quality sound as well as worldwide distribution is why we all know of reggae today. the fact that he is rasta just happens to be part of the whole package. there are people playing heartical, uplifting music worldwide, who are not rasta, that we will likely never hear in our lives because they don't have the distribution. but i tend toi prefer rasta music as it can tend to be more concious than non- reggae at times. but don't tell artists like lkj that i said that, since he feels (or at least felt at one time) that rasta was a bad thing for reaage music, holding back excellent artists who had no locks and didn't speak of jah.
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