Capleton cancelled in Humboldt

Quote
J_72
We are talking about music, not culture. If I like punk rock, but do not like racist element, I have to accept the whole of that music?

Are u kidding??? How can you say punk rock is racist??? Dead kennedys had a black drummer!! Nazi punksfuck off... minor threat?? Bad brains were rastas... many punkers would attend bob marley shows back in the day.. nazis are fround upon by punkers... know your stuff

Punk rock is and has been used by racist skinheads and punks since the beginnings. If I choose to listen to The Clash or Sex Pistols that does not mean I should have to listen to the racist punk bands that have and do exist. Maybe I should have written clearer, or maybe you should try to read more carefully.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 03:50AM by J_72.

Just because a few inbred iggnorants make a few punk records does not mean all or even most punkers are racist... that kund of event shows the true heart of punk .. i loved punk rock and never found that kind of hatred ...like i said its a smalll percent of the genre that felt that way..

Christians are against homosexuality .. capleton is just more aggressive with his approach... amerimacka

I think you are missing the point- the element is there, and it is large enough for The Clash and Sex Pistols to react to it, and for SHARPs to start a whole movement against it. Just as reggae has elements I do not like, it is the same for punk, rap, etc. Racist punks are not a "few imbreds", but a substantially large subculture within "punk". I am not saying all punks are racist, or punk rock as a whole is racist, as I like punk and have friends who were punks and SHARPs, I've been to a few Bad Brain shows and HR shows, I know the connection between Rasta and punks, etc. My point to SolJah was that I do not accept all elements of reggae music, just as I would not accept all elements of punk music. Simple as that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 03:51AM by J_72.

Quote
iriebarto
Christians are against homosexuality .. capleton is just more aggressive with his approach... amerimacka

I am guessing my lesbian cousin who is a practicing Christian would have a problem with that, as would her church and other liberal Christians. More aggressive in his approach...good heavens.

Anyways, why am I being harassed for not liking Capleton and his hate music? I have made it pretty clear he can sing what he wants, I can choose to not give him my money, and the gay community can boycott his show...the beauty of free speech and free market....America.

No ones harassing ... simply a debate ... and through some miracle i managed to go through my punk rock phase without experiencing much of a racist element.. i seen it.. but from a far.. the only racist punks were nazis...

Which tells me some most nazis liked punk, not punks where nazis



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 03:35AM by iriebarto.

Even DK sang "Nazi Punks @#$%& off"...

Quote
iriebarto
No ones harassing ... simply a debate ... and through some miracle i managed to go through my punk rock phase without experiencing much of a racist element.. i seen it.. but from a far.. the only racist punks were nazis...

Which tells me some most nazis liked punk, not punks where nazis

Well, I certainly do aprecialove a debate without boardies resorting to the "you should die" argument, kinda defeats the purpose if you are supposedly speaking out against violent lyrics, don't you agree?

_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez

You should die? Who said that?

Quote
J_72
Even DK sang "Nazi Punks @#$%& off"...

Umm yeah i said that already ..

I think it makes since with a black drummer



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 04:01AM by iriebarto.

So there are Nazi Punks...anyways, good night. I think at this point we are....





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 04:02AM by J_72.

Quote
J_72
You should die? Who said that?

It was posted on this board, but I'm not even talking about that comment only.
I have heard similar opinions from many in the pro-gay community.
When prop 8 was on the ballot for example, either a blogger, or a person writing a letter to a newspaper, cant remember, stated that those who voted in favor of the prop should be sent to work camps....
I just do not and can not overlook such hypocracy, if a person feels so strongly about ppls right to express themselves, they should not call for such drastic measures against those who have a difference in opinion.
"You should die" is somehow righteous, and "boom bye bye" is not?
Doing my best to remain objective, but comments like that one show the ridiculousness of the shituation

_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez

Quote

"You should die" is somehow righteous, and "boom bye bye" is not?

Neither of those statements are acceptable to me ORSJ, but <Sarcasm>perhaps they were just referring to 'metaphorical' work camps </Sarcasm>.

But, while there is no difference in the statements, the acts DO remain different imo. People have 'free will' to express as they wish through their words and lyrics. On the other hand, with rare exception I don't believe homosexuality is a 'choice' people make, it's who they are....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 05:01AM by Daniel.

If you regard Romans chapter 1 with any value of insight, then it would suggest homosexuality is a "consequence" not a "choice";
particularly Romans 1: 26-27
"...Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error..."

Regarding the presence in the church, as mentioned above, its existence doesn't make it right. Nowhere in the Christian ancient texts is it stated that it is permitted. To the contrary, in reference to the New Jerusalem mentioned in Revelation 21, it appears to be considered an abomination.

Still, with all this back and forth, and fya blazin, its still a fya for purification. No one on this earth judges a next man or woman's soul, and one can always repent and come into correction. One the one hand, its wise to distinguish between judgement of an act, versus judgement of ones soul. On the second hand, consider the cultural disparity. Just because the manner of delivery "offends" some, consider it is coming from people who have a different culture than you, and consider the culture is an African culture song by people are in the diaspora, living in a foreign land. From their POV, its a shock and is spoken against with no apology and a not so timid manner. But, its also been made mention that the selection of tunes are different abroad than yard, as the audience is different. Different people, different culture.

From another angle, instead of "hating" on the lyrics it should be appreciated and considered an act of love. Love is not always pretty sweet kind and nice. Everything under this Sun is for the Glory of Jah, and even the Judgement itself is an act of Love from the Creator

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 12:36PM by J_72.

IMO, it has been at least ten years since Capleton was worth getting excited about (or even paying $ to see live). He's just not that good anymore. He's evolved into more of a cartoon character than a righteous messenger, although that's how he projects himself.

After seeing him a couple of times, jumping around on stage and pulling up every "tune" after ten seconds, I just don't think he's worth all these words....

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One the one hand, its wise to distinguish between judgement of an act, versus judgement of ones soul.

I agree with that statement Iyah, which is why I don't condom Capleton's soul, just his actions.

And I am fully aware of and appreciate the notion of cultural differences that you mention. When I travel abroad, I make a concerted effort to leave my 'americanisms' at home and to follow the ways of the people that surround me be it not wearing shorts, not eating meat or my lady donning a Hijab. Apparently Capleton does not have similar cultural sensitivity.

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If you regard Romans chapter 1 with any value of insight, then it would suggest homosexuality is a "consequence" not a "choice"

And if you regard REAL LIFE with any value, then the fact that Ken Mehlman and Mary Cheney are gay is proof positive that homosexuality is not a "choice."

Quote

From another angle, instead of "hating" on the lyrics it should be appreciated and considered an act of love.

Yeah, just like how I should appreciate those Christians who tell me I am "doomed' to "go to hell" because I have not accepted Jesus Christ as my lord and savior are merely engaging in an "act of love." Thanks, but no thanks.....

I am the one who posted "you should die" and then I deleted the phrase (before my whole post was deleted by Moderator). It was not intended as a threat, altho one could interpret it that way...my meaning was to just go away. I deleted the phrase because after posting I felt it wasn't appropriate.

I am very reactionary and many times I go overboard when I post - especially when it comes to the bigotry and hyprocrisy coming from those who think it is OK to sing about killing innocent people. Note I am not saying anything about their right to sing such malicious lyrics. But with that right also comes consequences.

The topic rears its ugly head every once in a while and I think we all know where each of us stands on it. Either you think it is fine and dandy to sing about killing innocent people, or you don't.

Mulligan, as a member of this forum, I dont appreciate you narrowly defining me. You haven't walked my path and I haven't walked yours. You could have just left it at "You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe".

“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. Matthew 7:3-5

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Mulligan, as a member of this forum, I dont appreciate you narrowly defining me.

Maybe I've missed something, but I'm not seeing any such attempt at Mulligan's 'defining' you Nahikuroots.

And, with respect to the last paragraph you posted, perhaps you should have read the sentence that precedes it before looking at a "your brother’s eye".....

edited by me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 04:43PM by mulligan.

Daniel,
I had assumed that when speaking here we are speaking to all members of the Forum.

"Either you think it is fine and dandy to sing about killing innocent people, or you don't."

I just feel that I don't fit in that definition and don't appreciate people telling me what I "think" Believe what you believe but please leave the proselytizing for your church.

As for the Bible quote. You are right, it is a paradox. But the Bible has no problem with contradictions. From a non-religious standpoint it seems to be "the cause of and solution to" all these disagreements.

Also Christopher Thank You for your wise words of reasoning. The world is truly a myriad of colors, not just black and white.

Bless up nahikuroots,

It seems to me the crux of this discussion is about differences in people... One way to look at it is that even though a thumb is different from a pinky they are both part of the same hand. Discussions about the differences between them serve some purposes I guess, but miss the bigger picture and further reinforce the illusion that we are not all in this together...

One

thanks, Christopher.

--
blessid love
ras danny
higher reasoning reggae time
KBOO Portland, Full Strength Community Radio
*Love is a net that catches hearts like fish.*
-Muhammad Ali
*I don't like reggae, I love it*

That passage from Romans has all of the earmarks of a gay person suffering from self-denial/self-hate.

Did I mention that, in some theological circles, there is a debate over whether Paul was in a gay relationship with his pupil, Timothy?

I just do not see how this is a matter of differences and interpretation- either you support a singer who sings about hanging gay people alive from trees or you don't. We are not talking about "fiyah" here (I know there is spiritual fiyah symbolism), we are talking about very explicit lyrics with a very explicit message. If a band sang about hanging Jews or black people alive from trees, would you still give them your money and support them or is the double standard used because he is a reggae musician from Jamaica? The weird thing is the animosity I often read on this forum for the fundie Christians and far right GOP, and yet Capleton is of the same ilk, or even more hardcore than them and he gets a free pass because "we like his music".

Quote
Walter
That passage from Romans has all of the earmarks of a gay person suffering from self-denial/self-hate.

Did I mention that, in some theological circles, there is a debate over whether Paul was in a gay relationship with his pupil, Timothy?

Bishop Spong....

J-72.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 06:31PM by mulligan.

agreed, J

--
blessid love
ras danny
higher reasoning reggae time
KBOO Portland, Full Strength Community Radio
*Love is a net that catches hearts like fish.*
-Muhammad Ali
*I don't like reggae, I love it*

No one gets a free pass.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 07:14PM by Christopher.

I'm not sure what your point is? She is singing a political anti-lynching song about the South lynching blacks folks while Capleton is singing ABOUT hanging gay people.

Clearly J_72. She is singing from her heart about what she feels is an atrocity. I pose that you are speaking from your heart about what you see as an atrocity. I don't presume to know Capleton's heart, not have I ever witnessed him perform his "hate" songs, but if we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he is singing from his heart about what he sees as an atrocity.... Yes, the three of you are different... But the same.

(capleton) - not just about hanging gays but ADVOCATING it.

What "atrocity" could you possibly be referring to? The atrocity that some people are different than capleton? the atrocity that capleton
feels the need to advocate killing those that he hates?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 07:40PM by mulligan.

The atrocity of the deterioration of morals.

C'mon mulligan is it that hard to follow my point?

I am assuming that Capleton feels that homosexuality is an atrocity. We here (myself included) feel that advocating the death of homosexuals (or ANYONE for that matter) is an atrocity. The fact remains that all of we are doing the same thing... Speaking out against what we see as atrocity.

Quote
Jahsprey
IMO, it has been at least ten years since Capleton was worth getting excited about (or even paying $ to see live). He's just not that good anymore. He's evolved into more of a cartoon character than a righteous messenger, although that's how he projects himself.

After seeing him a couple of times, jumping around on stage and pulling up every "tune" after ten seconds, I just don't think he's worth all these words....

I couldn't agree more!

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Dubguy

Quote
Jahsprey
IMO, it has been at least ten years since Capleton was worth getting excited about (or even paying $ to see live). He's just not that good anymore. He's evolved into more of a cartoon character than a righteous messenger, although that's how he projects himself.

After seeing him a couple of times, jumping around on stage and pulling up every "tune" after ten seconds, I just don't think he's worth all these words....

I couldn't agree more!

cosign......

well christopher - your idea of an atrocity is certainly atrocious if you think being gay is an atrocity.
No one here has advocated killing capleton - while he certainly has advocated killing gays..

I almost bit on that one mulligan!!!

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east bay herbalist

Quote
Dubguy

Quote
Jahsprey
IMO, it has been at least ten years since Capleton was worth getting excited about (or even paying $ to see live). He's just not that good anymore. He's evolved into more of a cartoon character than a righteous messenger, although that's how he projects himself.

After seeing him a couple of times, jumping around on stage and pulling up every "tune" after ten seconds, I just don't think he's worth all these words....

I couldn't agree more!

cosign......

Exactly... PULL UP!!... what I wa...PULL UP!!..s thinking...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2012 10:21PM by rappy heggae.

The fact remains that all of we are doing the same thing... Speaking out against what we see as atrocity.


The difference being that Capleton's atrocity is another human being. Not actions taken by that human, but their being itself. That ain't right. If another culture advocates something that violates a basic human right, in this case to exist, we don't have to respect that violation even while we respect other aspects of that culture. Don't give me the argument that gays have choice, there is homosexuality throughout the animal kingdom. Since y'all believe this was created by a god, there must be a misinterpretation of god's word, his actions speak pretty loud.

Love that reggae!

Of course you are right nomo and muligan too... I agree with you both, I personally abhor the hate speech and have been deeply troubled by the presence of it in reggae music. A music which has so much love in it... but after seeing enough LGBT folks at reggae shows all over the bay area, I figured if they can let it go, I can too.

To set the record straight mulligan, (And please try to actually accurately read this post.) I have never EVER put a next one down because of their sexuality. Your lumping me in with Capleton because I shared a perspective in which his beliefs are as important to him as My beliefs are important to me is ludicrous. So i'll say this clearly and for the last time.

EVERYONE has the RIGHT to their BELIEFS regardless of whether or not anyone else agrees with them. Period.

to help you understand mulligan.... You have the right to believe in purple spaghetti monsters in the sky who tell you what other people believe and tempt you to attribute ugly things to them they never said... If you want. Whether or not your purple spaghetti monsters are right in that belief is a separate issue. I know its confusing cause having a RIGHT and being RIGHT sound so similar and are spelled the same. but trust me, they aren't.

Bless up,
I'm Out!

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norcaljahman
The atrocity of the deterioration of morals.

You mean heterosexual shows like Bachelorette and Real Housewives? Surely you aren't referring to the many happily married gay couples with children that shop at Target on Saturdays...

Quote
Christopher
Clearly J_72. She is singing from her heart about what she feels is an atrocity. I pose that you are speaking from your heart about what you see as an atrocity. I don't presume to know Capleton's heart, not have I ever witnessed him perform his "hate" songs, but if we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he is singing from his heart about what he sees as an atrocity.... Yes, the three of you are different... But the same.

There is a big difference. Billie is singing about the atrocity of hate and violence against black people while Capleton sings about committing acts of hate and violence against gay people. You really can't see the difference? I agree, as I have stated, that he has right to sing what he wants, I have a right to not give him my money and the gay community has a right to boycott,. My beef is threefold: 1. people crying censorship or getting angry at gay people for standing up for their rights as human beings and 2. people on this forum justifying those hateful lyrics and giving their money to Capleton when you know darn well if he ever even mentioned hanging black people they would have a problem with it and 3. the constant religious justification of certain ones on this forum for lyrics that not only deny human rights, but specifically talks about hanging and shooting gay people. It truly seems idiotic to me. Regarding number three, saying you don't agree with homosexuality for religious reasons is one thing, explicitly singing about hanging gay people alive is ludicrous.

I feel you J_72... And truly I get the difference between the two. I am not now, nor ever have, Defended hate... I believe we've had words on the subject before.... I wanted to inject what I see as a missing element into the conversation, but I don't want it to get confused with defense of hateful behavior, which I agree Capleton has engaged in. Im not defending the hate lyrics or the man, only pointing out that he has the right to defend or sing or spew whatever he wishes, and honestly I'm with a few next ones on this board who are less than impressed... I doubt he believes 20% of what he sings about. I've never understood the following he seems to have mustered, (perhaps I should have checked him earlier in his career) I'll still be at the show for many reasons not the least of which is that regardless of what Capleton believes in he is a major reggae artist, a part of this culture and as this thread can attest to, a controversial personality. These are the things I find interesting and the events in which I choose to invest my energy.. (if not cash money it's an investment of time and talent anyway.)

Let's hook up this summer. I'll introduce myself, when you're not busy filming and taking pictures.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2012 02:12AM by J_72.

Anytime. It would be a pleasure.

One.

to Jeff 72....

Looking forward to it Christopher. See you this summer!

Just a reminder of the whole point of this thread...

Capleton
Bun Out Di Chi Chi
Bun out ah chi chi, Blood out ah chi chi
Burn out a queer, Blood out a queer
Batty dem ah @#$%& and ah suck too much pussy
Blood out ah chi chi, Blood out ah shitty
Blood out a queer, Blood out a @#$%&
Whoa!
Sadomite and batty man mi shot up....Whoa
Sodomite and queer man, I shoot up... Whoa
Shoulda know seh Capleton bun battyman
Dem same fire apply to di lesbian
Seh mi bun everything from mi know seh dem gay
All boogaman and sodemites fi get killed
Hang Dem Up
Yow....String dem up and hang dem up alive
Bare batty man come round yah ...
Dis mamma earth sey none cyann survive



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2012 12:53PM by J_72.

Quote
J_72
Even DK sang "Nazi Punks @#$%& off"...

Hey Jeff, always good to see you here. Actually, the ONE time there was a chance of my business being picketed was by way of a threat of a local chapter of wanna-be KKK clowns, 'cause my staff refused to carry music by the white supremacist band Screwdriver...at the time(I'm not making this up) there was a tattoo parlour next to my store owned & staffed by some righteous bad boy Skinheads who are anti-racist & big Ska fans(again, I ain't shi*ting you); I knew if the Klan skinheads showed up, my next door neighbors would have welcomed them most heartily...but, I guess you could say the Klukkers Punked Out, & a fight was averted.

Capleton happens to be an artist I respect & have enjoyed for years, until he goes into his homophobic act ----during a performance in JA about a decade ago as he hit the 'batty-man' schtick, I recall asking the Jamaican folks I was standing with 'DO YOU REALLY THINK THIS IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM YOU HAVE IN JA??!!?....' They admitted it wasn't, by far. Whenever I've been on the island, I've stopped conversations flat by saying 'why dont DJs here talk about THE PROBLEM here of all these grown men sexing up little girls?? What about the problem of grown men RAPING girl children---I don't hear about anyone wanting to burn fya on them...'

I dunno. I'm going back & forth on whether or not I'll check him here on the 24th of this month. Perhaps one day Mr. Bailey will recant his
jeriamads against gays. As I've said befo', if Jamaican artists want to sell this line of thought, they better get used to having tours largely limited to the Caribbean, where few disapprove of this viewpoint.

By the by----I'd like to hear what anyone has to say about Beenie-Man's apology a few months ago....

I like reading the board cuz you get
white man politics in a nutshell....
a cancelled show or two will not stop the fireman despite the wishes of the haters
If you boardies are so dedicated to this cause
I want to see you out there front and center protesting the show then.
J-72 is on a Crusade, atleast on the message board......
well put your money where your mouth is.......Jeff if you feel so strongly
get out there and lead the protest!!!

Which "white politics" are you talking about?

This?

[salsa.democracyinaction.org]

Or this?

Quote
J_72
Which "white politics" are you talking about?

This?

[salsa.democracyinaction.org]

Or this?

HAHAHAHAAHA.....Burn them hipocrities and vultures J. Big up the educators everytime.

" Teachers teach and do the world good, kings just rule and most are never understood." KRS 1...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2012 03:17PM by east bay herbalist.

Quote
strikkly
I like reading the board cuz you get
white man politics in a nutshell....

This is so ----ing lame.

But go 'head on, own it, young white feller. Puts you on the right hand of the Reverend Phelps....

Quote

By the by----I'd like to hear what anyone has to say about Beenie-Man's apology a few months ago....

Papa Ray: I think you are reading too much into his statement. It was no "apology", and here's a video from BM to prove it:





Beenie Man was the one who signed the Compasionate Act thing and then denounced it. As for me, I found his statement to be entirely self-serving. It was also not true. He says "Do not fight against me for some song I sang some 20" trying to chalk it up to 'being a kid' but that's total BS because he sang those same songs in 2004 when he was 31 years of age which is hardly a 'kid' imo....

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papa ray
Hey Jeff, always good to see you here. Actually, the ONE time there was a chance of my business being picketed was by way of a threat of a local chapter of wanna-be KKK clowns, 'cause my staff refused to carry music by the white supremacist band Screwdriver...at the time(I'm not making this up) there was a tattoo parlour next to my store owned & staffed by some righteous bad boy Skinheads who are anti-racist & big Ska fans(again, I ain't shi*ting you); I knew if the Klan skinheads showed up, my next door neighbors would have welcomed them most heartily...but, I guess you could say the Klukkers Punked Out

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Christopher
to help you understand mulligan.... ............................................................................................................... I know its confusing cause having a RIGHT and being RIGHT sound so similar and are spelled the same. but trust me, they aren't.

Bless up,
I'm Out!

I did go back and reread your posts and, of course, you are right and I apologize for mis-reading that you think gay = atrocity.

However, you don't need to talk down to me (see above).....very condescending.

Here is what I posted:

Quote
mulligan
I. Note I am not saying anything about their right to sing such malicious lyrics. But with that right also comes consequences.

.

So perhaps you should go back and read my posts...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2012 07:16PM by mulligan.

eye yi yi, everybody has a lot of time to argue in this thread. To each his own.

CAPLETON OCT 11 inna HUMBOLDT !!!!!!!!!!
BLAAAZE it !!!!!!!!

Apologies for the tone mulligan, I couldn't tell if you were being serious with me or not.

Humble and Wise Christopher, Respect.

Daniel, no Not at all like Christians brow beating that "THEIR" way is the only path to salvation. Not at all.
Among the Three religions that worship the Lord God Jehovah, the stance on the issue is the same from a historical perspective.

Side note: living in the deep south, I daily existence is surrounded by those types of "Jesus" advocates you referenced.
I too have an appreciation of cultural diversity in the traditional sense, and I have a much broader interpretation of "In My Father's house are many mansions", than they do. Trust me. I constantly seek HIS Grace and Mercy to strive towards respectful common ground with "those types" on a one to one basis. Emphasis on "Respectful", whereas we can reason on things scriptural, but I have no intention or interest of straying from acknowledgement of Haile Selassie as the Lion of Judah and all that implies. However, with respect, we can still learn from one another.

Regarding the comparison to travelling abroad with Capleton's lack of "respect" for others culture: Capleton is not travelling as a tourist, and by his own admission, he is "On a Mission". Still, in the old world, Capleton is appropriately dressed, and philosophically, Id bet there wouldn't be as much issue with him in other places abroad, as there is in the states or some select areas of Europe (UK?). A general observation on a man's dress,...if a man wears pants (not jeans) and a very causal button up shirt, he can travel just about anywhere in the world without offense, given respect and be appropriately fit to walk into churches, synagogues, mosques, or other temples, in most cases.


Walter: Are you serious?!! That's the best you can contribute. Did the reference to Romans upset you or something man?
Perhaps it would have been more productive for you to consider that letter was written to a specific audience: "The Romans".
I'll leave it at that, except to say, personally, though I'm a Japhite, don't maintain a "Pauline" view of Christianity. In fact, I find it peculiar how the "NT" has 13 of his letters, but only one from James. But hey that's me. Nonetheless, there is relevance to much of what Paul wrote, when considered in the proper context.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2012 11:47PM by IYah_Trod.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2012 04:20PM by nahikuroots.

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Bonus
CAPLETON is NOT CANCELLED in HUMBOLDT

We will release the venue name on show day to save the venue owner from being bombarded with threats.

CAPLETON live @ CLUB MORE FYAH !!!! Northern Humboldt, address to be announced on show day

Love is coming at you twice the speed of lightening so what you plan to do?

Its showtime!! Any announcement on a venue?

From Bonus Entertainment's web site:

OCEAN GROVE TRINIDAD



Ocean Grove
480 Patricks Point Dr
Trinidad, CA 95570
(707) 677-0394

So i have a question for those who would go see Capleton, even if you knew that he was going to sing one of his gay hate songs. How far would an artist have to go before you would refuse to go to his show? If Capleton had a song expressing hatred of women would you go? Y'know, something about how annoying they are, outta keep em in the bed and kitchen? If he had a song about hatred of american indians would you go? They let babylon take over america. What if he had a song about hatred of white men? Black men? Asians?

This is a real question. You would go in spite of hatred of gays, would you tolerate hatred of anyone, everyone?

Love that reggae!

Or maybe the question should be, if he only sings one hate song and you would go, how many hate songs does he have to sing before you don't go? or leave? Just wondering.

Love that reggae!

I like Capleton for many reasons and I have come to terms with the culture of entertainment that speaks against deviant behavior.

I would go if he vocalized no anti-deviant lyrics. I would go if he vocalized only anti-deviant lyrics. But neither of these are what is the reality.

It is such a small part of the whole and rooted in self-preservation of black people.

I feel some of yall just dont care that it's a different culture. And that is ok too.

This is what you would miss if you choose to be offended and not attend.

You calling gay people deviant now?

Love that reggae!

Beat me to it Nomo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2012 11:50PM by J_72.

From a Jamaican perspective, yes. They bun out pedofile and sodomite in the same breath. That behavior is lumped together.

Not my opinion however. I believe in living and let living.

I recognize the honest intent of your question Nomo, respect that.
However like it or not, as I commented previous, I personally think that "hate" is the wrong word choice, from my POV.

I for one would LOVE to see Capleton, but thanks to the boycott pressure, have not been able to do so. Hopefully this year would be different.

I most definitely DONT desire to go to hear bun battyman tunes, but I see that from a cultural perspective. I dont disagree with the sentiment that homosexuality is against Jah's Law for man and wombman of the earth, but I personally enjoy other aspects of the music and culturally understand the reason for anti-gay lyrics.

Really, hasn't the "bun battyman" era in reggae really subsided? Truly, from those who have been to recent shows, how much of the live performance, state-side contains these types of chants/songs? Emphasis on State-side!

Can't folks accept the metaphorical intent of songs anyhow, and just choose to stay home if they disagree?
To me, these anti-hate groups are blowing things out of proportion. How many instances of violence can be DIRECTLY related to these songs?

When has their been such an assault against music as this, since the "subliminal message" thing of artists like Judas Priest, or the raunchy lyrics of 2-LIve Crew? Those are not my style of music (though I did think 2 live crew was funny), but I would never think to ban them like this. Especially, given these are cultural artists.

I find it interesting in a place like New Orleans, where it is perfectly acceptable to have "Decadence" parades, but the Capleton and Cocoa Tea bill was cancelled!!!

On that note, to address the issue of gay being "deviant", it looks to me that they are "deviant" by their own admission, by having the "Decadence" parade. Check the definition of decadence if you doubt.

Whenever people talk about there "Love" of a thing while at the same time expressing their disappointment in it I think of this

"The beginning of love is to let those we love be perfectly themselves, and not to twist them to fit our own image. Otherwise we love only the reflection of ourselves we find in them." ~ Thomas Merton

A lot of judgements are thrown around here. In debate they call that type of question a "straw man". But in answer to your hypothetical question Nomo. IF I was the type of person who would "who would go see Capleton, even if you knew that he was going to sing one of his gay hate songs", the answer is no limit because I would already be a person who was OK with it. Now if you wanted to ask a more realistic question like "If you went to Capleton show expecting positivity and he started being hateful, would you leave? the answer is yes. To my knowledge this hasn't happened anytime recently (at least stateside as Iyah noted). I'm pretty sure he has figured that out and with all the cell phones in the air in this day and age it seems likely that if it happened it would be documented.
The real issue is this. You can boycott Capleton or force him to edit himself where you have power but you cant change his beliefs and therefore he cannot be redeemed in your eyes. If you cant change him then you attack his fans regardless of what they choose to focus on. We can't go back and undo the things that led to him being so misguided. We can accept the good and reject the bad or we can just hate him for hating. Of course our hate will be much more passive and righteous, right?

deviant behavior, to me, is advocating grievous harm to others......

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nahikuroots

"The beginning of love is to let those we love be perfectly themselves, and not to twist them to fit our own image. Otherwise we love only the reflection of ourselves we find in them." ~ Thomas Merton

I rate that Nahikuroots...and relate my own guilt of that, where I have loved the potential of someone, which indeed was my own projection...

on the flip side:

" There can be no deep disappointment where there is not deep love" - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

I have been staying out of this whole conversation for the most part, King Shango has never been at di top of my lists of artists I rate or have to see, but I have always enjoyed the shows when he has come thru. Well this tour I have seen quite a bit more, as Kulcha Knox who is both an artist and person that I have the highest raspect for, is on di lineup too. I now know the set list quite well and can say that it is all positive songs and of course fulla fyah and energy! The prevailing message one comes away with is much more along the lines of 'Mama u strong and this son wont let u down" Love, burning the corrupt system, no guns.... and so forth. I also got to spend a little time round di man himself, and he was nothing less then very raspectful, sweet, mellow and humble!

As far as the whole argument of it being a cultural belief that is so deeply deeply rooted in them from as long as we can remember, you can take it or leave it, but trust me you better believe it cause its true! Why do I know it? Cause I have spent enough time round Jamaicans and in Jamaica, that I overstand that things are just so different there on so many levels, and the ability to change a mindset like that, or for people to jus start open their minds to what they have been taught is wrong and sinful, and maybe disgusting to them too, is just not that easy or simple!!! They have not been raised in Cali (where there are still many who dont open there minds or except these things, or same sex marriage would not be a drawn out voting issue). You must remember that this little colonial island is as god fearing and bible reading a place as you will find, weather they are Rasta or christian... and often time education is lacking to say the least. I have been dragged to church and had the devil called out of me, while ladies cried out to Jesus at di top of their lungs while stopping their feet... cause I said no, when I was asked if I believed he was God. And later that day I was in a heated debate with one of Garnet Silk's brothers, who was so mad at their sister for bringing me to church, and is no longer with his wife cause she start going too... So while he burned a fire in Jah name (and I totally share his dislike of di institution) he could not tell me what one of the biggest messages Selassie I teachings was/is - freedom of faith "..In the mystic tradition of different religions we have a remarkable unity of spirit. Whatever religions they may profess, they are spiritual kingsmen. No one should question the faith of others, for no human being can judge the way of God..." jus to share 1 of many quotes on the subject. My point being is his attitude represents a level of ignorance that he is not alone in (and I hope nobody reads this in the wrong way, cause it is not meant in disraspect). It is something I feel more time steams out of a lack of access and ability to sometimes do and know better.

Anyway, I have more thoughts on this all but im tired and my bed is calling. So on that note I would like to leave you all with this song from Capleton, which I encourage you all to watch, as I feel represent where di Ras is really coming from and what he supports. How many of you know bout the amount of charity works he does for di youth, elders and many more... he truly does look out for his communities, weather you like his music or not!

Just basic human rights...the rights of two people to love each other....basic human rights...

The extent to which some folks are willing to go to excuse Capleton (and other REDRUM CISUM artistes) for their morally bankrupt opinions that gays folks be killed simply because they are who they are is amazing. I see you people working - you admire the man's talent and you want to see him perform - there's just this 'small' problem that people keep blowing out of proportion... So to assuage the guilt you must be feeling (unless your a sociopath) at the hypocrisy of this situation - supporting a man who seeks to profit by chanting for the death of gay folks while supporting concepts that are core to this music such as "One Love", tolerance, and eglatarianism. So we get comments like these

"deviant..."
"cultural belief"
"pedofile and sodomist"

... and this unbelievable question:

"Really, hasn't the "bun battyman" era in reggae really subsided?"

Really? Listen to yourselves, you are trying to defend the indefensible. Look, there is no arguement - it is over - you are on the losing side. Murdering people is wrong.

So when Capleton comes, go enjoy yourselves. Smoke mass quantities of weed and get "Irie" - just walk past the protesters with a rueful shake of your head and small smile to yourselves - they can't be expected to understand - they have no understanding of the "culture". Pay up, go in and sway to every song. Big up Capleton when he sings (IN DEFIANCE) of the protest, one of his batty songs. Whatever lies you must tell yourself to make supporting an artiste who advocates for the killing of other people OK for you, tell. But please, don't try to come on here are defend that decison by using those same lies. It makes you look silly and, frankly, sad.

Enjoy the concert.

and the point of my question above was that i think you would all feel wrong if the subject of scorn was black men, white men, chinese men, women....but you'll let it go since its gay people. The point is that people are people, gays no less than anyone else. Get to know them and you won't fear them so much, and fear is what it is.

Love that reggae!

There u go walter.. i think youre getting it.. you cant change the minds of the masses with your propaganda .. so give it a rest old man!! The concert is a great show.. stop being so damn stubborn and check out the show for yourself, or boycott reggae altogether.. you act like capleton is the only one.. while he is more extreme with his lyrics.. most rastas do not believe in homosexuality ... you are beating a man down for his beliefs... you sir are no better than anyone.. self righteous dbfp

Point is iam not gonna hate someone over a couple bad lyrics, especially when its a cultural thing.. and not agroup built on hate..

@iriebarto -- what I hear you saying is "I love me some Capleton -- i am not gay, so I can ignore his anti-gay lyrical oppression."

Propaganda is the very definition of that lie you tell yourself to enable you to sleep at night.

What is a 'dbfp' and what makes me a self-righteous one? I am not a text messager.

Iriebarto, would you care if they lambasted black men?

Love that reggae!

Would you go if he had some 'bad lyrics' about women?

Love that reggae!

Iam sorry youre gay walter.. but listening to an artist that has a few anti gay lyrics doesnt make me hate gays.. so really i have no lies to help me sleep.. actually i sleep damn good most nights thank you... like i said its alllll over reggae because of the cultural beliefs... so maybe its time to find a new genre... why not tune into your local pop station and hear some Americanized music.. might be more your taste

If it were not for Capleton I would probably not Love reggae music the way I do so it is complex. I go to church and here the Pastor telling me this and that. I take some and I leave some. I try and do the same with musicians.

PS Calling someone "gay" as an insult is a very, very stupid act. It belongs back in 1985 and is really cowardly when done at all let alone from a Dick Cheney undisclosed location. IF you really don't like Gay people show up in a "Gay community" and tell them to their face. I mean after all they are just girly men and you are a "real man" no?

Quote
Walter
@iriebarto -- what I hear you saying is "I love me some Capleton -- i am not gay, so I can ignore his anti-gay lyrical oppression."

Lol we can't call homos gay??? Thats like saying its wrong to call an african american black..

And what walters post said yo me was iam gay so i cant overlook capletons "lyrical opression!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 03:43PM by iriebarto.

Does it bother you bigots if someone has one green eye and one blue eye? or if they are bald? of if they are too uncoordinated to play sports? or if you say to-may-to and they say to-mah-to? Why focus your bigotry and hate against ones who do you no harm?

note - you were not called gay atyd iriebarto.....altho if you were you would certainly be a better person.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 04:04PM by mulligan.

Read again my special friend... i said he called himself gay

And no one hates you cuz u cant read



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 04:09PM by iriebarto.

@iriebarto -- Since we do not know each other, I cannot fathom how you "know" my sexual orientation. It doesn't matter one way or the other, though.

And why should you be sorry for what another person is? Weird. You discerned that from my post? Get help for you lack of reading comprehension, would be my advice to you, mi yute.

I think I understand your problem.

You really do hate gay people and think they deserve death. You WANT Capleton (or Buju or Beenie Man or ...) to sing their murder music at their shows. You want gay people to be separated from society and ostracized, bullied, and persecuted by society. Your discomfort is evident. Hostility seeps through your writings.

Tell me, do you still ride around town with your windows up blasting Buju's "Boom Bye-Bye"? Or do you ride with the windows down.

Now, clearly, you are not a racist. You have love and tolerance for people of all colors, all creeds - unless their gay. Your discrimination against gays knows no bounds.

Like my Pappy used to say, "Son, sometimes you gotta let a fool be a fool." And so, iriebarto, I leave you to your own ignorance.

Try to have a nice day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2012 04:10PM by Walter.