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Please SNWMF, I am begging you.

Posted by east bay herbalist 
Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 27, 2013 02:10PM
Next time you are thinking of booking Soja for any reason. Please take time to reconsider and think of all the other talented and deserving artists in the world of music. Thank you for your time and understanding.
ODB
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 27, 2013 04:29PM
I like SOJA. My wife would not have let the whole fam go to our 12th SNWMF if they hadnt been added to the line-up on her birthday..as she likes them alot too... its a long story.
That being said..Absolute worst headlining performance I have seen at SNWMF..Compounded by there very ungrateful attitude. Everyone has an off night. But that is not the fans fault... when no one was feeling there terrible performance they appeared to get upset. Offered a very sarcastic " thanks for inviting us 9 years ago" followed by a sped through set to fill there obligations to Warren.
Maybe it was me but they seemed very ungrateful for the opportunity. Even if most the fans arent feeling it, your up there for the ones who are feeing it.. and you do it for the love of the music.
Those that werent into SOJA before probably were at Ras Michael anyway. But I really doubt they made anyone change there mind if they werent sure about SOJA before.
When Rebelution played 2 years ago i saw ALOT of people walk away talking about how they were so much better than they thought. SOJA blew any chance of that.
Anyhow the SOJA i saw 9 years ago was way better than the circus last friday night.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2013 04:31PM by ODB.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 27, 2013 05:39PM
Laugh out loud and then roll on the floor laughing.....IMO WTF w/ SOJA @ SNWMF ?????
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 27, 2013 07:55PM
I was literally hiding in my tent holding my ears. I actually had to lock myself in my truck, it wasn't pretty and I don't mind some of SOJA'S songs... That one with Collie Buddz is kinda catchy, but what for what they got paid they should be ashamed... I know I am.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 27, 2013 08:10PM
Glad I completely avoided that set.

~Highest Heightz Every Time~
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 27, 2013 08:11PM
Thank you for your post. This feels like a support group because I felt the same way. I really wanted k'naan and figured that was why I hated sojas performance so much but it was more then that.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 27, 2013 08:23PM
Seriously right now!!!! That was pure garbage. I had to check them out to see what all the fuss was about, and I gotta say. I still don't get it. The band was good enough and would make a decent back up band, but the lead singer was just terrible. I really don't understand how anybody could listen to that or why they have the following they do. Midnite, The Dead, Phish, Groundation, say what you want about these bands, but love em or hate them, they are talented musicians and deserving of a fan base. Soja on the other hand is nothing but the Reggae version of the Backstreet Boys.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 27, 2013 08:29PM
Did any of you guys see The Green? i passed on all of the valley acts on friday, ooof.

Love that reggae!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 27, 2013 08:39PM
I tried to check out The Green also. Liked them a lot more than Soja, but still unimpressed. Don't get me wrong, they are all way better musicians than I could ever aspire to be, but Cmon son (thank you Christopher), let's stop applauding these turds
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 27, 2013 09:32PM
I keep looking for the "like" link under each of your posts.
I met a lot of young folks in the camping area and I struck up a conversation with them. For a lot of them, this was their first time at this festival and the only reason they came was for SOJA. Must be that the promoters want to attract a different crowd/bring more people in/make more money....?
I dunno. A few years back Baba Maal headlined on Friday night. It wasn't reggae but it was damn good. I'd rather have something like that over bands that have, what I consider, lack of soul. Does that make sense?
For the record, I did not see SOJA Friday night. After considering the weekend lineup and my finances, I only went on Saturday.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 27, 2013 09:47PM
Quote
Zana
I keep looking for the "like" link under each of your posts.
I met a lot of young folks in the camping area and I struck up a conversation with them. For a lot of them, this was their first time at this festival and the only reason they came was for SOJA. Must be that the promoters want to attract a different crowd/bring more people in/make more money....?
I dunno. A few years back Baba Maal headlined on Friday night. It wasn't reggae but it was damn good. I'd rather have something like that over bands that have, what I consider, lack of soul. Does that make sense?
For the record, I did not see SOJA Friday night. After considering the weekend lineup and my finances, I only went on Saturday.

where's the "like" button...
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 27, 2013 09:48PM
Quote
east bay herbalist
Soja on the other hand is nothing but the Reggae version of the Backstreet Boys.

That honor would go to Rebelution. I've said before that Fridays nights valley stage shows are usually not that great, this year was particularly bad for my taste. I mean c'mon, Groundation followed by SOJA? Just grateful for the village stage, which to me is what this festival is all about. Respect for those with different styles.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2013 09:49PM by steeleman.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 05:55AM
Word I got was they were arrogant DICKS & even expected top billing over The Marley lads.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 06:29AM
SOJA sucks, so I easily passed on them (once on the village stage in the past was more than enough).
Groundation was mediocre (we tried to listen, but I dunno, the hype doesn't match the music). "Over it" is the phrase my teen-aged daughters use. Groundation = Over it.
Could not get in the front gate early enough to see the Green (Geez, what a slow moving, frustrating mess out front this year) and when we did finally penetrate the premises (arrrrgggh), how could we possibly miss Hollie Cook and Prince Fatty?

Thank goodness for the Village Stage, Dancehall and all the terrific vendors that happily kept me from SOJA.
'Cause, they suck, and we are "over it."
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 06:31AM
For the record, I think Groundation displayed some of the finest musicianship I witnessed the entire weekend......
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 06:50AM
Daniel, They are excellent musicians, no doubt. They are just not engaging to my ears any more, which is a grade above SOJA, which have become intolerable.
But SOJA sucks. IMHO eye rolling smiley
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 07:08AM
I like Groundation. Granted I'm not very familiar with their catalog, but I love the Bob tributes they do every year.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 07:21AM
wow, I too ran for camp during Sojas set
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 07:41AM
"Just grateful for the village stage, which to me is what this festival is all about"

And how, Steeleman! Must say, I wasn't just absolutely fired up for Friday night, for a change. But Sister Carol was great, just rootsied it up better than I've ever seen her at a festival or anywhere else-the kind of performance we've come to expect inna the village. And after Mother Culture, Ras Michael tore it up in an upbeat stylee(nyabinghi rock steady?!?) that was different-in a good way- than the sort of psychedelic presence he had the last time I caught him.

Didn't see Soja but hadn't planned to, and Rebeluton was pretty good on the Village stage in 08 I think it was,

I say... Some Never Plant yet want to Reap,
Be careful, try to look before you leap;
Took a little walk from my Vineyard...
Now I'm all alone..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2013 08:17AM by papaken.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 08:18AM
Can you say Gaudi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
then Dinner Than Jah Shaka = no SOJA
Yummo!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 09:27AM
I really was looking forward to seeing K'naan. But he had to cancel when he got accepted into the Sundance Film Institute directors lab that takes place in June. He's been working on a documentary about an insane asylum in Somalia and they are helping him. Soja was no replacement for him. They were BAD!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 09:38AM
didn't care to check for anything onna valley stage Friday...
thanks Warren, for Friday nights really crucial reggae acts, Prince fatty, Ras Michael... (missed Sis C. for Gaudi)
and inna dancehall the Gaudi set followed by the heavy and explosive sounds from Jah Shaka
all this made for a great and highly danceable Friday evening! full joyed!
didn't even check for all that other stuff as I was not interested, been deh ~ done dat.
not at all surprised to hear it went just as I had imagined it would...

maybe we should just let California Roots do dem kinda ting. jussa thought

--
blessid love
ras danny
higher reasoning reggae time
KBOO Portland, Full Strength Community Radio
*Love is a net that catches hearts like fish.*
-Muhammad Ali
*I don't like reggae, I love it*
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 09:51AM
Quote
Ras Danny
didn't care to check for anything onna valley stage Friday...
thanks Warren, for Friday nights really crucial reggae acts, Prince fatty, Ras Michael... (missed Sis C. for Gaudi)
and inna dancehall the Gaudi set followed by the heavy and explosive sounds from Jah Shaka
all this made for a great and highly danceable Friday evening! full joyed!
didn't even check for all that other stuff as I was not interested, been deh ~ done dat.
not at all surprised to hear it went just as I had imagined it would...

maybe we should just let California Roots do dem kinda ting. jussa thought

That was my schedule exactly! What a great Friday night mi sey!!!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 10:41AM
I also like Groundation a lot, I think they are a great band. But I've seen them several times in the last year so I passed on that for fellowship of my friends the redwood trees at the Village, for me that Friday night is the most anticipated night of reggae all year.

Love that reggae!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 10:56AM
Wow...I'm so glad I didn't go to the Valley Stage on friday!! Sounds bad...
Sister Carol and Ras Michael brought the vibes at the Village Stage tho!!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 11:15AM
By now, any true SNWMF vet knows the Village Stage is the place to be on Friday night....
ODB
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 11:25AM
"By now, any true SNWMF vet knows the Village Stage is the place to be on Friday night...."

Dont know about that so much.. been going since 2000 and some great world acts have been on the main stage many friday nights.. big exception this year.

Would have much prefered Knaan.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 11:26AM
Quote
Reggabe
By now, any true SNWMF vet knows the Village Stage is the place to be on Friday night....
seeing as how I've seen the village stage acts several times over( with the exception of Prince Fatty, who killed it Friday afternoon) I figured I would have an open mind and see something out of the norm. In the end I found myself at the village stage for the last 20-30 mins of Ras Michael. In the end I'm glad I did, the next time someone tells me that Soja is great, I can honestly saw they suck.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 11:59AM
I loved Groundation on friday night and then bounced over to see Ras Michael. What a set that was. Those of you who missed Groundation missed out on a wickid set. Sorry to hear that SOJA was so poor. I think that was a good headliner for friday night. The couple camping next to us came only for them and told me the next day I missed a great set. To each their own, they were happy and that is what is important. So many good band that there is something for everyone at SNWMF!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 12:05PM
Very true Tyler.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2013 01:01PM by aaron_g.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 12:32PM
Well said rossta8888
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 01:18PM
After reading all of this, I have formed my own opinion. The SNWMF staff and Warren were presented with a massive challenge in having 3 major acts cancel at the last minute. To get Luciano and Don Carlos at the very last second was an amazing feat and my hats off to them...SOJA appears to be the dud. When I saw a flyer on the way out with them billed above Alpha Blondy for the Tahoe fest, I about puke (they better have the respect to say that Alpha should headline...curious to hear what happens tomorrow). There are a few SOJA songs that I have dug in the past like "Strong for Them"....but I have no intention of seeing them live, especially if they are as arrogant as it sounds like they are.

Luciano, Don Carlos, Bunny Wailer, Ras Michael, Alpha Blondy, Midnite, Spear, etc, etc, etc are indeed soldiers of Jah Army.

SOJA and Snoop Dogg are not "Soldiers of Jah Army".
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 01:48PM
A one-time SOJA fan has to pipe in here. When SOJA first dropped 10 years ago or so, some of their songs were crucial in my opinion. Jah Atmosphere, Zion Livity, Rasta Courage...all great tracks. I then went to see them live in Arcata in like 2008, they were awful. No energy, just going through the motions. I figured everybody has off nights so I didn't think too much of it. Saw them again in 2011...just as bad. Fast forward a couple crappy albums and some poppy singles later and somehow they are headlining this year's fest on Friday.

I'm a young, single guy so I figured SOJA would be a good set to listen to some music and find someone to dance with....holy crap that set was lackluster. Nobody around me was feeling it what so ever. Jacob Hemphill (the lead singer) looks like a damn robot going through his motions up there. I bailed about 30 minutes into the set and went to camp to gear up for Jah Shaka the rest of the night.

I do not see myself paying money for any SOJA music or SOJA live sets anytime in the future. I understand why SNWMF booked them, they are a great draw to the younger, more mainstream crowd and WILL sell tickets. However, after that performance plus how much I'm sure they charge to do a show, I doubt we'll see them again anytime soon at this fest (which doesn't sound like it will break any hearts)

That being said, Groundation was/is overrated. They are great musicians, but it just doesn't click for me. I left they're set and watched Sister Carol who was way more entertaining. I felt The Green had the best set on the Valley Stage by far on Friday night. They had a great vibe, they all sing and at least they looked like they were having fun up there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2013 02:13PM by Redwood Rebel.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 01:57PM
The Green did put on a great show. Agreed there. Funny about Groundation. People either love them or dislike them. I was hoping Don Carlos would come running out during their set to mash up the place with Freedom taking over!! The ladies could have sang in place of the Congos. I would imagine Don did not arrive till Saturday some time before his set.



Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 02:26PM
Just an FYI ... SOJA is the biggest selling artist for Ernie B ever .. most units sold ... also in Europe and South America they fill stadiums over 50k ... not endorsing these guys but people really do love these guys worldwide .... you have to put it into perspective ... to most 21 year old kids Sublime is classic reggae ... Bradley passed away almost 20 years ago .... an artist like Don Carlos to most 21 year olds is like Nat King Cole to us over 40 ... just my two cents
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 02:28PM
btw ... I do love myself some Nat King Cole
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 03:37PM
Quote
DeeCee
Just an FYI ... SOJA is the biggest selling artist for Ernie B ever .. most units sold ... also in Europe and South America they fill stadiums over 50k ... not endorsing these guys but people really do love these guys worldwide .... you have to put it into perspective ... to most 21 year old kids Sublime is classic reggae ... Bradley passed away almost 20 years ago .... an artist like Don Carlos to most 21 year olds is like Nat King Cole to us over 40 ... just my two cents

feeling red smiley Bet you Mr. Ernie Boetius may appreciate moving 'the units', but neither do they make his personal turntable, OR is the fact of SOJA being his best selling act is also a huge point of great esthetic satisfaction for EB!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 03:45PM
Wow, I'm grateful my heart told me to go see Sister Carol and Ras Michael instead. Friday night was a good night, an Irie night at the Village Stage.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 04:13PM
Quote
DeeCee
Just an FYI ... SOJA is the biggest selling artist for Ernie B ever .. most units sold ... also in Europe and South America they fill stadiums over 50k ... not endorsing these guys but people really do love these guys worldwide .... you have to put it into perspective ... to most 21 year old kids Sublime is classic reggae ... Bradley passed away almost 20 years ago .... an artist like Don Carlos to most 21 year olds is like Nat King Cole to us over 40 ... just my two cents

That's right. These guys market like crazy...The have a "street" team. What JA artist has a website much less a "street" team? It always kills me when I'm in Hawaii cuz these cats are Hawaii's favorite (and not mine). Last year I was there for a week and saw an outdoor show with SOJA and the Green that had like 3 k people there, two nights later caught J-Boog at a show of 200.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 28, 2013 04:19PM
I have to Agree with most of the statements made about SOJA this yr... They just didn't bring it. I had to excuse myself rite about the time they were thanking Java A GO GO for being so close to the stage...??? confused smiley Besides the band sounding mediocre at best... the lead singer just sounded like $#!t. Off night maybe...? Maybe not
I know I've said some not so nice things about Groundation in the past<~ but Nuff Respect to them for "always" Giving it 110% ~> i can Def. Respect that!

one love-juan love
(SAPO)
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 29, 2013 12:18PM
Does SOJA even follow the spirit of Rastafari? Sounds like they don't...
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 29, 2013 12:20PM
?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2013 12:24PM by Reggabe.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 30, 2013 08:53PM
What is the spirit of Rastafari?
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
June 30, 2013 10:35PM
tha 'Groundation-like' set to see dis summer is Rockamovya at RotR... imo
I'll pass on anything else except maybe the band that backs Harrison on his solo release (studio version)

--
blessid love
ras danny
higher reasoning reggae time
KBOO Portland, Full Strength Community Radio
*Love is a net that catches hearts like fish.*
-Muhammad Ali
*I don't like reggae, I love it*
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 01, 2013 08:28AM
When I saw Friday's lineup I knew that after The Green, I would be nowhere near the Valley stage. I was perfectly fine posting at the Village stage for the night.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 01, 2013 09:00AM
That set at ROTR Ras D will be amazing! Rockamovya and Army are the 2 reasons I am sad to miss ROTR. We got MIDNITE in the Bay area this weekend!!!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 01, 2013 09:14AM
With any luck I will record both the Rockamovya and Army sets....

Love that reggae!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 01, 2013 09:34AM
Somebody was just telling me about Rockamovya. Told me they are a must see.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 01, 2013 09:34AM
Quote
naturalmommy
When I saw Friday's lineup I knew that after The Green, I would be nowhere near the Valley stage. I was perfectly fine posting at the Village stage for the night.

Its a good thing there are 3 stages. I didn't even consider going to the main stage as i usually dont on Friday.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 01, 2013 12:19PM
britney spears sold lots of albums too. doesn't make any of her music any good tho!

--------------------------------------
FullWatts on your stereo...™
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 01, 2013 02:42PM
You will be able to listen to ROTR on Fri. Sat. Sun on KMUD.org
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 01, 2013 02:45PM
I now officially think these guys are arrogant clowns. Alpha Blondy was a "later" (still over a month out) addition to the Tahoe reggae festival last weekend. I was certain SOJA would have the respect and humility to go on before Alpha Blondy. If I were in their group, I would have insisted this be the case. Nope, they didn't. Alpha Blondy essentially opened for them....I think I puked in my mouth a little when my friend (who went to the show) text'd me about it. Sick and wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2013 02:46PM by jcom.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 01, 2013 05:44PM
Quote
jcom
I now officially think these guys are arrogant clowns. Alpha Blondy was a "later" (still over a month out) addition to the Tahoe reggae festival last weekend. I was certain SOJA would have the respect and humility to go on before Alpha Blondy. If I were in their group, I would have insisted this be the case. Nope, they didn't. Alpha Blondy essentially opened for them....I think I puked in my mouth a little when my friend (who went to the show) text'd me about it. Sick and wrong.

Yes, SOJA may have developed slightly swelled heads due to night after night SRO crowds, but doubt if it affected the billing, which is more based on the realities of the box office than what the artists want. I have to think the festival itself made the decision to headline SOJA. It's rankled me for years that reggae warriors like Sly & Robbie and Don Carlos are relegated in California to opening for acts like Slightly Stoopid and the execrable (by reggae standards) Pepper, but that's a testament to how much greater the draw is here for the latter 'artists', who make SOJA sound like foundation roots by comparison. As was mentioned earlier, the younger concert-goers consider Sublime old-school reggae, the same way an old fart like me would view Ken Boothe or John Holt. To my admittedly prejudiced but somewhat trained ear, the standards of what constitutes good reggae music (which to me involves the requisite tuff-as-nails and tight-as-a-gnat's-*** bass & drums first & foremost; the musicians cutting in & out of each other to create a rhythmic & melodic whole greater than the sum of the parts; soulful expressive vocals & harmonies singing conscious lyrics; a tight, round, 'organic' full-spectrum mixdown; etc.) have indeed dipped considerably over the years. Perhap's it's us oldtimers' fault for not being diligent in passing along what we've learned. Or perhaps people simply look for things in reggae other than my own personal musical criteria. That's the reality, which is why I don't mind the occasional SOJA or Rebelution billing at SNWMF, because it helps defray the costs of bringing the Errol Dunkleys, the Ras Michaels and the Keith & Texes to Boonville. Bigups to Warren & Co. for delivering so many of the artists who the reggae lovers might not get a chance to witness if not for SNWMF.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 01, 2013 06:01PM
Quote
stamina!
That's the reality, which is why I don't mind the occasional SOJA or Rebelution billing at SNWMF, because it helps defray the costs of bringing the Errol Dunkleys, the Ras Michaels and the Keith & Texes to Boonville.

the costs that need to be frayed are not keith & tex, nor errol dunkley. but I absolutely know what you are saying.

m.

* [www.kboo.fm]
* [www.shocksofsheba.podomatic.com]
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 01, 2013 07:36PM
The nice thing about SNWMF compared to other festivals is that if you don't like one artist who is playing, there is another stage to take in an alternative. I see when this SOJA was playing (who apparently I should be thankful I've never encountered), Ras Michael was on the other stage, with Jah Shaka in the dancehall soon after. Sounds like something for the purists and non-pursits (who constitute the majority) alike.
Also, with reggae as a limited exposure/somewhat dying genre, festivals help introduce reggae greats to those who might not otherwise know about them, and someone like Errol Dunkley might gain himself a few new fans in the process while it still matters.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 01, 2013 08:45PM
With Jah Shaka and Ras Michael SNWMF always has something else to watch. For Redemption SNWMF should bring Sojah? next year. Maybe throw some people off. Bring KONSHENS!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 02, 2013 10:30AM
Quote
Stamina!
Quote
jcom
To my admittedly prejudiced but somewhat trained ear, the standards of what constitutes good reggae music (which to me involves the requisite tuff-as-nails and tight-as-a-gnat's-*** bass & drums first & foremost; the musicians cutting in & out of each other to create a rhythmic & melodic whole greater than the sum of the parts; soulful expressive vocals & harmonies singing conscious lyrics; a tight, round, 'organic' full-spectrum mixdown; etc.) have indeed dipped considerably over the years. Perhap's it's us oldtimers' fault for not being diligent in passing along what we've learned. Or perhaps people simply look for things in reggae other than my own personal musical criteria. That's the reality, which is why I don't mind the occasional SOJA or Rebelution billing at SNWMF, because it helps defray the costs of bringing the Errol Dunkleys, the Ras Michaels and the Keith & Texes to Boonville. Bigups to Warren & Co. for delivering so many of the artists who the reggae lovers might not get a chance to witness if not for SNWMF.

I loved reading this Stamina! Great description of the music we all love!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 02, 2013 01:45PM
Quote
Mikey J.
Quote
Stamina!
Quote
jcom
To my admittedly prejudiced but somewhat trained ear, the standards of what constitutes good reggae music (which to me involves the requisite tuff-as-nails and tight-as-a-gnat's-*** bass & drums first & foremost; the musicians cutting in & out of each other to create a rhythmic & melodic whole greater than the sum of the parts; soulful expressive vocals & harmonies singing conscious lyrics; a tight, round, 'organic' full-spectrum mixdown; etc.) have indeed dipped considerably over the years. Perhap's it's us oldtimers' fault for not being diligent in passing along what we've learned. Or perhaps people simply look for things in reggae other than my own personal musical criteria. That's the reality, which is why I don't mind the occasional SOJA or Rebelution billing at SNWMF, because it helps defray the costs of bringing the Errol Dunkleys, the Ras Michaels and the Keith & Texes to Boonville. Bigups to Warren & Co. for delivering so many of the artists who the reggae lovers might not get a chance to witness if not for SNWMF.

I loved reading this Stamina! Great description of the music we all love!

Thanks Mikey! It's hard sometimes to say exactly what moves you in reggae music, but I've had a few years to mull it over winking smiley Maybe it was a bit of a rebuttal to the relativists who claim it's ALL a matter of 'taste' or 'opinion'; that attitude, along with the lack of motivation on the part of many musicians to really study and penetrate the music and its history to learn for themselves what makes reggae tick, has led to a very real decline in the authenticity of the reggae rhythms and songs I hear these days, especially out of Cali and the USA.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 02, 2013 08:17PM
Hey SNWMF people,

I just joined this forum and started reading the letters late last night. I came all the way from Cleveland to see this show and I thought it was the best reggae festival I have ever been to. I started out as a reggae DJ in 1986 and as a reggae concert promoter shortly there after. I am by no means an expert on anything but I am most familiar with reggae. I love it! I was surprised to read the comments about SOJA. I think their own popularity makes people dislike them. I think they are a great band and were a great addition to the festival.

I was in the media tent when two of the members of SOJA were in there (Jacob and Pat) and they could not have been more accommodating to anybody and they were polite and fun people. Reading the comments made me think of a great band out of Kansas City called the Blue Riddim Band. They used to get a slammed all the time and reggae historian Roger Steffens called them the best American reggae band ever. I'm not here to make any bold statements other than I think SOJA was a great add for the festival, did a great job and I personally enjoyed them. People are always quick to put down successful bands. Enjoy SOJA. Enjoy what they are doing for reggae as a whole. There were plenty of great bands and even though I caught Ras Michael (who was amazing!) and missed the very beginning of SOJA when I caught most of their act I thought it was great.

The SNWMF is so much more than about any one band though. I was new to a handful of bands including Keith & Tex and so many others and it was all WONDERFUL. I have never been to the SNWMF and I was just proud to make the 2,500 mile journey. I hope you folks out there appreciate what a great festival you have. The vibes, the music, the food, the other great vendors, everything....was fantastic.

Did anybody try Dr. Dread's Potato Chips? They were great! (He was next to the pizza). Thanks again to Warren Smith and the countless staff who made for an excellent visit and my big trip of the year.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 03, 2013 07:52AM
Quote
Stamina!


To my admittedly prejudiced but somewhat trained ear, the standards of what constitutes good reggae music (which to me involves the requisite tuff-as-nails and tight-as-a-gnat's-*** bass & drums first & foremost; the musicians cutting in & out of each other to create a rhythmic & melodic whole greater than the sum of the parts; soulful expressive vocals & harmonies singing conscious lyrics; a tight, round, 'organic' full-spectrum mixdown; etc.)











Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 03, 2013 09:21AM
Welcome Packymalley. Glad you made the trip! We do take for granite the fact that we are so blessed on the West Coast! Thanks for the reminder of how lucky we are.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 03, 2013 09:21AM





@ PackyMalley . I came all the way from Cleveland to see this show and I thought it was the best reggae festival I have ever been to.

Glad you enjoyed yourself, Packy. Been coming out from Texas myself since 1998. I was a big fan of the 'Reggae Directory' fanzine (outta Cleveland) back in the day. Sounds like we were getting into reggae music arouind the same time. Anyway, I don't really like alot of the vitriol aimed at SOJA anymore than you-occasionally.it DOES seem politically reggae correct to slam 'white' reggae bands. I like Soja but they are not in the same strata as Blue Riddim IMO. Roger Steffens certainly is not the only one that loved(s) those guys.





I say... Some Never Plant yet want to Reap,
Be careful, try to look before you leap;
Took a little walk from my Vineyard...
Now I'm all alone..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2013 09:33AM by papaken.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 03, 2013 09:28AM
Never even heard of Blue Riddim. Thanks guys I will check them out.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 03, 2013 10:19AM
Quote
rossta8888
Never even heard of Blue Riddim. Thanks guys I will check them out.
Here's their wiki page. They were the first American band to play Jamaica's Reggae Sunsplash in '82, and slew the crowd so bad they were invited and performed the following year. By that time they'd been into reggae for over a decade, going to JA and hanging and jamming with some of the island's top studio musicians. I can't say many of the latter day US reggae bands or artists have shown that kind of livication. I only wish that the Cali reggae bands followed in the BRB's footsteps instead of those of Sublime. Check their fine tune "Nancy Reagan" which they recorded at Channel One studio in '82 and was a big hit when they played it live at Sunsplash.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 03, 2013 10:27AM
Thanks Stamina!!! Leaving to see Midnite and have a 10 hour drive ahead of me. Sounds like I am buying some Blue Riddim to listen to!!! Thank you!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 03, 2013 11:36AM




Some favorites locally down here in Texas- RIP Michael Johnson

I believe the Bees were the 2nd American band to play Sunsplash

I say... Some Never Plant yet want to Reap,
Be careful, try to look before you leap;
Took a little walk from my Vineyard...
Now I'm all alone..
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 03, 2013 12:55PM
I felt Soja's performance was really BAD and it has NOTHING to do with the color of their skin! I have always loved Blue Riddum Band. They played the Garberville Theater in the early eighties and I was really impressed by their music. They were real gentlemen with no attitude and I know for white reggae bands they are a hard act to follow if that's the way you want to look at it.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 03, 2013 05:14PM
Holy $..hit....Killer Bees! I think I just had fungal flashback winking smiley Haven't thought about these cats for decades. Saw them somewhere back in the late 80s - early 90s...to foggy to recall. Nice Post.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 04, 2013 12:38PM
I gotta just say even when Brad Eric and Bud were higher than georgia pines they Sublime still would've wiped their ass with whatever that SOJA hot mess was supposed to be and same goes for the rebelation garbage on stage even when sublime was playing minutemen and Just Ice covers.
I dont think that they are responsible for this new generation of bad reggae. slightly stoopid have been doin it live for 20+ now and whatever you think of pepper they played 200 shows a year for 15+ and neither tried to stake a claim as a reggae band.
seem to be different branches of the same root but I'll agree some heavy pruning is needed from time to time...

cheers!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 04, 2013 02:24PM
Quote
Joshwa
I gotta just say even when Brad Eric and Bud were higher than georgia pines they Sublime still would've wiped their ass with whatever that SOJA hot mess was supposed to be and same goes for the rebelation garbage on stage even when sublime was playing minutemen and Just Ice covers.
I dont think that they are responsible for this new generation of bad reggae. slightly stoopid have been doin it live for 20+ now and whatever you think of pepper they played 200 shows a year for 15+ and neither tried to stake a claim as a reggae band.
seem to be different branches of the same root but I'll agree some heavy pruning is needed from time to time...

cheers!

If that be true, why do their fans almost invariably claim these are reggae bands? Someone's been giving them this misinformation, and their fans have embraced it. Meanwhile SOJA, Rebelution, Iration etc. play SRO amphitheatres and festivals while the Melodians and Mighty Diamonds and other artists who helped create and define reggae music play for 50 people in bars. There are several reasons for this, much of it having to do with the reliability and ethics (or lack thereof) of artist management and promoters, but that again is the reality. Nothing against Sublime really, in fact I've used their music to teach reggae bass to some young students. These youth's idea of reggae was the music of Sublime, who copped reggae riddims from the Wailing Souls, Half Pint, Frankie Paul, Horace Andy & quite a few more. I would play a Sublime tune for the student side-by-side with the original reggae version. My students were invariably amazed; they thought Sublime wrote all those things. This new knowledge led them to explore reggae more thoroughly. A good thing. But this also made me realize that Sublime was copping these reggae riddims and licks without really educating their fans on their origins. This same lack of education seems to continue in the 'Cali reggae' genre to this day.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 04, 2013 03:39PM
Well said Stamina. Im 29 years old and Sublime did exactly that for me.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 04, 2013 07:16PM
I love Sublimes music to this day, but I have never considered them to be Reggae. I know they got grouped into that genre by the masses, but for me they were a different sound than reggae all together. I recognized the reggae influenced rythms of course, but I also recognized the rock/punk mix to it also, not to mention a lot of Latin vibes thrown in from time to time. To me Sublime was the epitome of the California vibe at the time, and if I had to put them into a box I would put them into the same catagory as the Beach Boys, or Jan and Dean. They are California beach music.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 05, 2013 10:43AM
@Stamina- What you say about Sublime & similar bands kind of reminds me of the influence of early hip-hop. As you know, early hip-hop artists sampled heavily from old funk/soul/r&b records. Youngsters like me at the time would hear a phat beat and maybe think it was original, but then learn it originally came from James Brown, or Fela Kuti, or some more obscure artist. This new knowledge would then propel someone like me to further explore the origins of this music, and therefore expand ones' musical horizons. Just as old-timers then must have cringed at this revamping of the old funk/soul songs they loved, us reggae purists sometimes get offended that the youth of today only know reggae through groups such as Sublime, SOJA, etc. Hopefully by exposing them to the origins of this music, like you did by playing to your students both the original riddims and their modernized twists side by side, the younger fans will grow an appreciation for the roots & foundation artists that paved the way for the new bands in the reggae genre. Give thanks for music and life!
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 05, 2013 10:47PM
Quote
rossta8888
Well said Stamina. Im 29 years old and Sublime did exactly that for me.


Well, you must have done some exploring on your own as well. I don't own any Sublime albums so I don't know if they credited the reggae artists they got their licks from (e.g. "what I got" from Half Pint's "Loving", or "Pawn Shop" from the Wailing Souls' "War Deh Round a John Shop" ). Actually, it took me a couple of teaching failures to get my curriculum together. When I linked up with my first student, a 15-year-old Sublime fan, my first instinct was to say to myself "oh, I've gotta drench this kid in Studio One, get him away from this Sublime $#!t"...so I gave him a bunch of classic basslines to learn. But I found that doing it this way was a lost cause...I caught him oftentimes stifling a yawn, if not just plain yawning in my face. After several lessons, he found an excuse to quit. I took on another youth with the same results, before I realized I was gonna have to relate to their musical tastes. Had to reach them before I could teach them. So I listened to a lot of Sublime, recorded the tracks that had a reggae thing I recognized going on, and the original tracks of the artists from whom Sublime got those reggae licks, so as to be able to play them side by side. It's been a few years, but one of my former students currently leads a ska/rocksteady band in Carolina. It's a success when they go on to learn more and more.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2013 10:49PM by Stamina!.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 06, 2013 03:14AM
Thoughts on Tribal Seeds? I've never seen em live, but I dig a few of their tunes.
AJ
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 06, 2013 05:59AM
Quote
packymalley
Hey SNWMF people,

I just joined this forum and started reading the letters late last night. I came all the way from Cleveland to see this show and I thought it was the best reggae festival I have ever been to. I started out as a reggae DJ in 1986 and as a reggae concert promoter shortly there after. I am by no means an expert on anything but I am most familiar with reggae. I love it! I was surprised to read the comments about SOJA. I think their own popularity makes people dislike them. I think they are a great band and were a great addition to the festival.

I was in the media tent when two of the members of SOJA were in there (Jacob and Pat) and they could not have been more accommodating to anybody and they were polite and fun people. Reading the comments made me think of a great band out of Kansas City called the Blue Riddim Band. They used to get a slammed all the time and reggae historian Roger Steffens called them the best American reggae band ever. I'm not here to make any bold statements other than I think SOJA was a great add for the festival, did a great job and I personally enjoyed them. People are always quick to put down successful bands. Enjoy SOJA. Enjoy what they are doing for reggae as a whole. There were plenty of great bands and even though I caught Ras Michael (who was amazing!) and missed the very beginning of SOJA when I caught most of their act I thought it was great.

The SNWMF is so much more than about any one band though. I was new to a handful of bands including Keith & Tex and so many others and it was all WONDERFUL. I have never been to the SNWMF and I was just proud to make the 2,500 mile journey. I hope you folks out there appreciate what a great festival you have. The vibes, the music, the food, the other great vendors, everything....was fantastic.

Did anybody try Dr. Dread's Potato Chips? They were great! (He was next to the pizza). Thanks again to Warren Smith and the countless staff who made for an excellent visit and my big trip of the year.


Greetings..
We have some friends in Cleveland and have met them at The Midwest Reggae Festival in 2009 & 2010. Love the festival ~ line-up, swimming & the people. That first year with Beres Hammond, Freddie McGregor, Tarrus Riley, Dean Fraser, Duane Stephenson & the Wailing Souls ~ irie line-up.
Nice to see Victor Essiet & the Mandators and Blue Riddim Band on this year's line-up.
We can not make it this year, but maybe another year.
Keep up the good work. thumbs up
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 06, 2013 08:07AM
Quote
jcom
Thoughts on Tribal Seeds? I've never seen em live, but I dig a few of their tunes.

I haven't heard 'em for a couple of years, but back then they seemed to be borrowing rather slavishly from the Bob Marley playbook, not necessarily covering his material but copying a lot of the Wailers' musical ideas and licks, even the 'woyoyoyoys'. I wasn't too impressed. But as I said this was a couple of years ago, hopefully they've expanded their listening and influences and found their own sound.
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 11, 2013 02:06PM
I personally like SOJA and have found that they are all very personable people and great to work with ever since we first linked in 2005. Personally, I am more of a fan of the foundation era of roots music. However, there are many contemporary artists/bands that I truly enjoy eg: 10' Ganja Plant, SOJA, Ooklah, Mellow Mood, Katchafire, Black Seeds, almost all VI artists, and many more from JA and abroad. I wasn't at SNWMF this year, so I can't comment on their performance, but everyone has an off night now and again, so give them a break. I most definitely wouldn't put them in the same category as all of the Cali Reggae Bands, which I am not a fan of, and has saturated the market these days. I have friends that play in many of the Cali bands and they are all wonderful people, but my ears and heart gravitate more towards the rootsier sound. Many have commented on this point and I will add this; I see bands like Tribal Seeds, Iration, Rebelution, Fortunate Youth, etc. as a 'gateway' band. It is getting our youth introduced to something other than the top 40 or MTV playlists and I am in full support of this! These 'gateway' bands are very marketable and sell tickets, which has allowed many festivals to keep going each year. These bands will lead many to further explore and delve into the the 'true' roots music and for that I am thankful.

As for the majority of this thread, hopefully this will lighten the mood and you can get a good laugh out this...I know I did....after all haters be hatin'



Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 11, 2013 03:25PM
Thanks for not lumping Groundation in with those CA bands Mikey J! LOL. I got a great laugh off that video! smiling smiley
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 15, 2013 11:53AM
I really like Tribal Seeds. They are a bit more unique than your average Cali reggae band. They have some serious bass lines
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 15, 2013 11:53AM
And their show Friday night on the Valley Stage in 2011 was awesome
Re: Please SNWMF, I am begging you.
July 15, 2013 01:20PM
Agree with you Rebel, I remember Tribal Seeds' Friday set in 2011 as being outstanding.

I say... Some Never Plant yet want to Reap,
Be careful, try to look before you leap;
Took a little walk from my Vineyard...
Now I'm all alone..
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