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"reparations is a must"

Posted by bigvein 
"reparations is a must"
February 17, 2014 05:38AM
Re: "reparations is a must"
February 17, 2014 11:19AM
I'm curious who pays, and who gets paid. If it comes out of tax dollars, that would be unfair as many citizen's descendants came to the United States after slavery. And if it is the families of slave owners, that might be a problem if they are lower middle class or poor. It seems like a very complicated process that looks "easier said than done" when spoken of in generalities.
Re: "reparations is a must"
February 17, 2014 11:53AM
crickets deleted by user



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2014 10:20AM by mulligan.
Re: "reparations is a must"
February 17, 2014 12:47PM
Quote
J_72
I'm curious who pays, and who gets paid. If it comes out of tax dollars, that would be unfair as many citizen's descendants came to the United States after slavery. And if it is the families of slave owners, that might be a problem if they are lower middle class or poor. It seems like a very complicated process that looks "easier said than done" when spoken of in generalities.

Sometimes I couldn't agree with you more
Re: "reparations is a must"
February 18, 2014 08:08AM
Personally, I am tired of that old "who pays" excuse. Its really simple, despite obfuscations to the comtrary.

The government pays - i.e. we pay. All of us. Fair? Perhaps not, but life itself is rarely fair. Reparations are needed to atone for the great injustice of the trans-atlantic slavery trade.

Yes, I know, it was not just white America that profited from slavery - Europe (principally Great Britain) also profited from slavery in the form of cheap American commodities and slavers profited from chaining up and selling their fellow Africans. And, yes, I know that some of these slavers were black.

But it is AmeriKKKa that was the primary beneficiary of slavery. The entire agrarian ecomony of the South was based upon it - indeed, the plantation society was made possible by it. Modern-day Corporatism has its roots in free-market captialism and the tenets of slavery. Corporations are made profitable by cheap, skilled labor making baubles for pennies that are then sold to consumers for dollars.

This stain on AmeriKKKa, 400+ years in the making, will not go away overnight. And reparations, however they are paid, will not remove that stain - no amount of filthy lucre can begin the ease that burden. However, reparations would signal a beginning to seriously address this moral debt.

Oh, I can just here the hue and cry - "What debt? _____________________." Fill in your personalized rationale as to why you are personally exempt. This debt is payable by every single American - we all own it; we all inherited it as part of our birthright.

If we can spend trillions to make us militarily strong, we can spend a little more to make us morally strong.
Re: "reparations is a must"
February 18, 2014 09:12AM
I just think it's a little more complicated than trying to tax Americans to pay the debt of slavery.. How could it really be distributed fairly?? And like Walter said "it won't remove the stain ", but it does show interest in moving forward.. I just think it needs be done fairly when it's done..
Re: "reparations is a must"
February 18, 2014 10:18AM
Walter, I agree with the sentiment, wholeheartedly, but disagree with the simplification of it. My ancestors came here in the late 1800's and had nothing to do with slavery...so tax me when I'm already overtaxed and barely making it month to month with a family of four? I haven't been teaching long enough for the payoff, and when I say month to month I mean it literally. It seems not only unfair but illogical, and that is just the beginning of the many complications I could bring up if we wanted to have a super long in-depth discussion about it.

While I agree the sentiment of reparations is valid, money compensation seems oversimplified.

Jeff



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2014 10:32AM by J_72.
Re: "reparations is a must"
February 18, 2014 02:16PM
J - I would contend with you about your ancestors not indirectly benefiting from slavery. We've ALL benefitted indirectly from slavery. Slavery provided the Southern economy with free labor. Slavery made it possible for a man to acquire large tracts of ariable land and to profitably farm that land. All that free labor translated into enormous wealth.

The Civil War was fought over the right of a white man to own a black man and deny him his human rights. This war (as well as the Mexican War in the 1830s) provided the germination of the military component of the military-industrial complex. Vast numbers of men were indoctrinated into the military. A subset of these men were educated in the latest military tactics and warfare sciences at West Point, The Citadel, Norwich, and the like. These men put these skills to the test fighting the 4-year Civil War. When the Civil War was over, Washington DC turned its imperialistic eye to the west. "Manifest Destiny" was the word of the day and the newly seasoned Federal Army and its experienced officers were unleashed upon the nations of the Natives in the West in a campaign of subjucation, dislocation, and eradication to fulfil that destiny.

Without the Civil War, might this have been possible? Probably, but without the warfighting experience gained in the Mexican and Civil Wars, it probably would've taken much longer. Perhaps not as successfully. The institution of slavery made this possible. The military might required the subjugate and hold this continent was acquired by sharpening the warfighting and leadership skills of the US Army during the Civil War.

After the Civil War, fought over the issue of slavery, people migrated west and the American empire spread west. The war-hardened army made that possible. Coincidental to the Industrial Revolution, this westward expansion created enormous wealth and power.

Without slavery, I doubt we would be as strong a power as we are. Perhaps California doesn't join the union and remains the California Republic. Perhaps Texas remains the Texas Republic. Perhaps Seward doesn't purchase his "Folly". America without California, Texas, and Alaska. Would that America be able to stand against Hitler? Would that America been a counterbalance to Soviet Imperialism?

So I contend that America is "great" due to the institution of slavery. America's karma debt is enormous - it needs to do three things: 1) Acknowledge the injustice of slavery 2) Ensure such injustice never happens again 3) make a meaningful token of acknowledgement to recognize that a debt is due. To #3 I say money talks and bullshit walks.

As to simplicity - I can see nothing more simple than funding a repartions pool from a 10% reduction in the defense budget. Allocation - the tricky part.
Re: "reparations is a must"
February 18, 2014 04:37PM
"As to simplicity - I can see nothing more simple than funding a repartions pool from a 10% reduction in the defense budget. Allocation - the tricky part"

thumbs up
Re: "reparations is a must"
February 18, 2014 04:50PM
I am still waiting for the descendents of the Russian Royal family to pay reparations for running my family out of Minsk in 1902 and taking their property, along with some of their lives.

I really don't think they benefitted from slavery, arriving to Ellis Island and moving to the north woods of Wisconsin, some 40 years after slavery's abolition in the US.

Real reparation is a fully funded public education system.
Re: "reparations is a must"
February 19, 2014 06:45AM
Quote
Jahsprey
Real reparation is a fully funded public education system.

thumbs upthumbs upthumbs up

... and universal healthcare for all (public option), not this Frankenstein system (ACA) that we have now.
Re: "reparations is a must"
February 22, 2014 04:34PM
Consider: the vast, overwhelming majority of white European immigrants came here after 1870, and did NOT go to the southern regions. Easy to see why: the last 35 years of the 19th Century saw The South as a region with very little opportunity, a reputation for not welcoming outsiders, anti-Catholic, and literally a plague-zone(Memphis was almost burned to the ground by the state legislature of Tennessee). Yes, the reputation of the South was as a place of famine & malnutrition, backward and seen as a bad moon rising.

The legacy of slavery left The South in the above poverty for 75 years, until WW2. Perhaps not 'reparations', but certainly a Dread Judgement.
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