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Dub plates??

Posted by east bay herbalist 
Dub plates??
May 04, 2014 07:39PM
Ive been running alot of mixes off of soundcloud lately and I notice that there are alot of mixes that are"Dub plate only mixes". While I have heard a few that I like, as a fan of the music I find most of them annoying and would rather hear the riddm and songs play. I do however recognize the importance of displaces and exclusives in a soundclash and sound system culture. It got me to wondering, what makes a killer dubplate from a sound system standpoint? Who are the most exclusive and sought after voices, and what sound system has the most devastating dubplates? I think I remember reading on here one time that TOK has a dubplate that crushes most competitors, is this true or just my imagination. Thanks in advance......
Re: Dub plates??
May 04, 2014 08:25PM
what are now referred to as "dub plates" are frequently boilerplate, unimproved recuts of marginal hits which frequently become inferior to their originals. and it a lot of cases, that means it's a poor take of a poor song, that some poor soundboy shells out $200 for. suckers born every minute.

what it used to be was when a soundman would have some connection with an engineer, producer, or some other connection with a session, and would end up with an exclusive song, take, or mix. special. and, in order for it to be worth anyone's interest, it was actually better in some way.

early on, what made it good was effort, creativity, and caliber of production. all hands that touched it were qualified. more attention was given to the mix, or in some cases the vocals were cut over a harder version.

in the later sense, it was more about doing something with a hitsong to take it to a higher level. yes a soundman name, and a hotter mix, or echos, or dropping into drum and bass after the hook, etc. the key is that it was not just a blah remake of a hitsong, but IT WAS A HITSONG MADE BETTER. that is what has changed, almost uniformly.

the crap that is sold today is more like white kids in the US and EU paying some "vocalist" to say their name, which they ridiculously then hold up as street cred. folly. how does that even make any sense to anyone? how does paying... it's pretty dumb. yet it has prevailed in the last decade. and as you noticed, it has not been better for the music. it has not been better for listeners. it has been better for vocalists, and it has been better for latecomer laptop jockeys who want to rush themselves a name, but the output clouds an already murky era of JA music production. ego over quality.

this is not to say that there has been no art, artistry and no masters in what dubs reached at their heights. there are some bad, bad, bad @#$%& dubs out there. yes even those that call out names, but those were done in a different way. no factory bullshit.

who has the best dubplates?

maybe jaro, or those who came through the 80s as part of the sound system sport. jack scorpio has some monsters.

or, depending on your ears, your views, and your values, it may be shaka. i have never loved him although i like a lot of his selections and very much respect his work. but if you are looking for "devastating" it could be him. roots fans will say it is.

unless you mean in the sound clash sense, which shaka would have nothing to do with.

i don't know... obviously this is an issue for me. i expect this post will bother some readers but i there's been some jive going on in this and i don't mind saying it.


anyway... what makes a good dub?

a memorable cut, better for one reason or many, controlled and played by one man alone.

if you remember it, it was good. if you forget it, it was a waste of time.
Re: Dub plates??
May 04, 2014 09:04PM
Interesting reading Nick, good post. There are a couple of Stone Love dubplates still going thru my head off a mixtape from two decades ago, that I probably last listened to about 12 yrs ago. Quality artists, riddims, and system.
Re: Dub plates??
May 04, 2014 09:16PM
Thank you for taking the time to be so elaborate with your reply and for the brief history lesson.

"the crap that is sold today is more like white kids in the US and EU paying some "vocalist" to say their name, which they ridiculously then hold up as street cred. folly. how does that even make any sense to anyone? how does paying... it's pretty dumb. yet it has prevailed in the last decade. and as you noticed, it has not been better for the music. it has not been better for listeners. it has been better for vocalists, and it has been better for latecomer laptop jockeys who want to rush themselves a name, but the output clouds an already murky era of JA music production. ego over quality."

Agree completely!! It does seem quite ridiculous to pay somebody money to say your name over a tune and say that your the best sound around, When the next sound system can do the same. Where is the credibility in that?

"this is not to say that there has been no art, artistry and no masters in what dubs reached at their heights. there are some bad, bad, bad @#$%& dubs out there. yes even those that call out names, but those were done in a different way. no factory bullshit."

Totally understood. Ive noticed the difference between production on dubplates from different sounds. Some sound like they are recorded over a cell phone while the artist is running out the door to catch the bus, and there are some that sound like the arist and band were all in the studio together while said artists was bigging up said sound system. Some dubs are the artist just saying how bad such n such sound is, while some dubs have an artist spitting straight fire over one of their tracks or on a whole new riddm.


"anyway... what makes a good dub?

a memorable cut, better for one reason or many, controlled and played by one man alone.

if you remember it, it was good. if you forget it, it was a waste of time"


It was a Stone Love dubplate that got me to thinking about all this. it was Damon Marley on the Hardtimes riddm. I was wondering why I never heard this song before and then I heard Stone Loves name being thrown around in it and figured it was an exclusive track. Ive heard a few more that I like, but this one for some reason caught my ear and stands out to me....

Thanks again for the great reply...
Re: Dub plates??
May 05, 2014 12:32AM
Iriiie BIIIG UP ...

I feel is Different Style of DUB PLATE ,

Some for CLASH & Some for VIBES
Some for KILL or Some for BUILT ...

for My SOUND Personnaly I LOVE The One who Come for BIIIG UP & VIBES UP the DANCE ... The CLASH KILL KILL DUB are BIIIIGGGGG for the CLASH if U are a CLASH Sound , But when it come to IRIE DANCE & We Listen All Night KILL KILL I feel not to much my style ... Is Why I prefer & LOVE Biiig UP & VIBES UP DUB ...

When I go to watch & listen a CLASH ( not really my style many years I don't Watch No Clash ) I Love Listen some real Killer DUB ... The Problem Nuff Time nowadays is Pure DIRTY Talk & DIRTY DUB ... Not Much Killing Creativity like it use to be ...

My Favorite's DUB PLATE is When U have a Time with the Artists Dem in the Studio and have a Time to Built UP a little Creativity Style ... In 2004' We Records This DUB Innna Geneva With PRINCE ALLA Original Foundation Ja , KAJEEM from Ivory Cost AFRICA & UMAN from Belgium ... and We spend a Good Time Inna di Studio CREATE A MUZIKAL & LYRIKAL VIIIBES ... Just a Exemple of a DUB PLATE EXCLUSIF VIBES MAKING ... [www.youtube.com] ... Is NOT ROOTS , IS NOT 100% Reggae But it VIIIIBES DUB PLATE MUZIK WITH MESSAGE ... And Here is the DUB PLATE Finish [www.youtube.com] ... Iriiiie ... I don't mean this is MY FAVORITE DUB PLATE is Just to Show Some CREATIVITY DUB PLATE VIIIBES ...

Also , ONE DUB PLATE SESSION CAN CHANGE A LIFE OF A "FOUNDATION" ARTIST WHO PAVE THE REGGAE WAY & Today Living Inna POOR MAN LIFE ... Is Why I Always LOVE To BUILT UP a DUB PLATE Session with some FOUNDATION's Artists or NEW UPCOMING UNKNOW or Sooonnnn Know Artists ... Also BIG NAME Artists But Dem Have BIG LIFE ALREADY !!! I Love More Try Help Built UP a New Life or Life With FOUNDATIONS and UPComing Artists ... One Old Time Artists can Make 1000/2000/3000 US Dollars In ONE Session and it can BOOOOOST HIM for UP UP UP & Come Forward Inna di MUZIIIK ...

DUB PLATE CAN BE BIIIG & Also Can be Weak & Boring ... If is Just Calling the SOUND Name & Say My Sound a di Best and mi ago Kill U it can be Quick Boring or Inna GOOD CLASH YEEEESSSSSSSSSS ...

Also , DUB PLATE it all depend the MASSIVE Inna di DANCE ... Nuff Time the Massive LOVE & FULLJOY More Without DUB PLATE or just a few DUB PLATE ... And Yes A Nice ORIGINAL Dub Plate Can Give a Nice ORIGINALITY , COLOR of the SOUND ...

Biiig UP All CREATIVE Selecta and Sound System ... Everytime ...
Re: Dub plates??
May 05, 2014 12:33AM
Most exclusive and Sought after artists are currently Super Cat and Jimmy Cliff. They are the only 2 artists that money can buy. There are a few sounds that can bust each. Might Crown who will be at Sierra Nevada has Many Rivers To Cross and Harder They Come from Jimmy. Rodigan has a couple Super CAt including Don Dada.
To me collecting dub plates just became the next step in collecting records and seemed the way to go. Over the years they have stacked to be nice deep collection that I treasure. I do agree with Nick in some of what he says. Anyone now a days can look on the internet and find a reputable dub source and order whatever they want just by sending funds. But if you ask Nick about getting a dub session with the artist and making a new version for your sound together it is a whole new thing and Im sure he will agree. There are also dubs that I call cookie cutter dubs and they are the ones that sound the same as everyone else's. Those are not really anything to special.
When you ask if there is one dub plate that crushes others the answer is No. With proper speech and deliverance any tune can beat. That been said in a clash the biggest tunes are often those of dead artists.
I personally like dub plate mixes but that because Im a collector.
Re: Dub plates??
May 05, 2014 11:49AM
garnett silk's "retreat wicked man" voiced as "evacuate the premises" is a prime example of a real dubplate done right....

for me at least.

--------------------------------------
FullWatts on your stereo...™
Re: Dub plates??
May 06, 2014 10:38AM
I know it is more recent and all these guys are alive, but I have always been very impressed with almost all of the dub plates on GTO's Hold Di Faith mix. My favorites are the two Bounty Killer dubs, followed by Tony Curtis and the various Capleton and Sizzla dubs. The sound and voice quality is really strong, and in the case of the BK dubs, they are a couple verses long. Add in the various riddims they are mixed over and I think they represent a high standard for dub plates today.
Re: Dub plates??
May 06, 2014 10:13PM
Quote
so nice
what are now referred to as "dub plates" are frequently boilerplate, unimproved recuts of marginal hits which frequently become inferior to their originals. and it a lot of cases, that means it's a poor take of a poor song, that some poor soundboy shells out $200 for. suckers born every minute.

what it used to be was when a soundman would have some connection with an engineer, producer, or some other connection with a session, and would end up with an exclusive song, take, or mix. special. and, in order for it to be worth anyone's interest, it was actually better in some way.

early on, what made it good was effort, creativity, and caliber of production. all hands that touched it were qualified. more attention was given to the mix, or in some cases the vocals were cut over a harder version.

in the later sense, it was more about doing something with a hitsong to take it to a higher level. yes a soundman name, and a hotter mix, or echos, or dropping into drum and bass after the hook, etc. the key is that it was not just a blah remake of a hitsong, but IT WAS A HITSONG MADE BETTER. that is what has changed, almost uniformly.

the crap that is sold today is more like white kids in the US and EU paying some "vocalist" to say their name, which they ridiculously then hold up as street cred. folly. how does that even make any sense to anyone? how does paying... it's pretty dumb. yet it has prevailed in the last decade. and as you noticed, it has not been better for the music. it has not been better for listeners. it has been better for vocalists, and it has been better for latecomer laptop jockeys who want to rush themselves a name, but the output clouds an already murky era of JA music production. ego over quality.

this is not to say that there has been no art, artistry and no masters in what dubs reached at their heights. there are some bad, bad, bad @#$%& dubs out there. yes even those that call out names, but those were done in a different way. no factory bullshit.

who has the best dubplates?

maybe jaro, or those who came through the 80s as part of the sound system sport. jack scorpio has some monsters.

or, depending on your ears, your views, and your values, it may be shaka. i have never loved him although i like a lot of his selections and very much respect his work. but if you are looking for "devastating" it could be him. roots fans will say it is.

unless you mean in the sound clash sense, which shaka would have nothing to do with.

i don't know... obviously this is an issue for me. i expect this post will bother some readers but i there's been some jive going on in this and i don't mind saying it.


anyway... what makes a good dub?

a memorable cut, better for one reason or many, controlled and played by one man alone.

if you remember it, it was good. if you forget it, it was a waste of time.

thumbs up
Re: Dub plates??
May 06, 2014 10:14PM
Re: Dub plates??
May 07, 2014 01:45AM
Universally dub plate refers to exclusive tunes… Either ones specially created for a sound or only available directly from the producer or artist…

In the clash sound jamaican style vocal dubs are specially created (or ordered as the case may be) to big up a certain sound as well as express specific ideas… As mentioned above they can be done tastefully with quality or not… (One of the best dubs I ever heard was one Diesel played last year at Reggae in The Hills for his soon to be bride)

In the current Uk dub Scene dub plate just means a tune only available from producer… Most of the best tunes and the ones that sounds are playing are dub plates… They may come out on vinyl eventually but usually well after they been played as dubs.. And also the dub mixes, often with many versions i.e. dubs, are raw and heavy, made for proper sound systems with preamps and whatnot… Its a natural vibes to be playing the current expressions and for those sounds who serious they will be building with producers and artists… and also nuff producers play sound often only their own dub plate productions…. trust me the best tunes are always held back for play by their creators and those who carry the aligned musical and heartical spirit… natural vibes… These days Inner Standing Sound playing majority dub plate selection including many of our own vocals and vocal remixes…

Whichever genre tho having special dubs gives your sound its own personality that no one else can copy or take away… Respect to everyone out there supporting artists and producers and creating and sharing good inspiring music...
Re: Dub plates??
May 08, 2014 07:18AM
nice, i understand and agree with everyone and their other points too.

you're right chuck diesel, i know what you were talking about and that was a decade ago but yes i'm still good with some of those results.


another good use is the dubplate as an "emblem" tune for the sound... i think the best example was brought up on this board years ago by fish or chimino as they anticipated hearing half pint "played by downbeat alone" which is the rough, one-away cut to billy jean that you almost wait to hear any time you see tony screw. it's the certain kinds of tunes that mark the session and help you register the night to your mind.

then there are some out there in a totally different category, like when waggy t got exclusive spoken word lines from eddie murphy and played them against bodyguard in the early 90s, or when wyclef recut a soundboy version of "the gambler" with kenny rogers. i remember reading about how people went crazy when he first played that... also about 10 years ago maybe?

not sure if this was the same cut or a later recut with kenny's hook. i hope it's the latter.



Re: Dub plates??
May 08, 2014 02:05PM
I love a good dub plate. Unfortunatley it seems, in more recent history, the selectors just want to play back to back tracks that advertise their name. What sucks about it is that the beats (riddims) are ill as f*ck, besides the cheese recording of the vocals.

My preference is when a solid dubplate is thrown in, but the majority of the mix is just ill vibes.

grinning smiley
Re: Dub plates??
May 08, 2014 02:46PM
Quote
zonk675
What sucks about it is that the beats (riddims) are ill as f*ck, besides the cheese recording of the vocals.

Dubs are usually delivered with clean vocals (no reverb/effects, although sometimes they'll toss one of those in for free too) on a separate/standalone track. It's up to the sound to mix it in right, and sadly there's a lot of "sounds" out there with no (in-house) mixing skills whatsoever that just plop it on top of the riddim track on their PC.

Great thread here.

"I'm gonna put on a iron shirt, and chase the devil out of earth" - Max Romeo
Re: Dub plates??
May 08, 2014 06:00PM
good convo....

TUNE: U Brown Dubplate



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2014 06:10PM by Jah Rich.
Re: Dub plates??
May 08, 2014 07:44PM
Quote
Dubguy
Quote
zonk675
What sucks about it is that the beats (riddims) are ill as f*ck, besides the cheese recording of the vocals.

Dubs are usually delivered with clean vocals (no reverb/effects, although sometimes they'll toss one of those in for free too) on a separate/standalone track. It's up to the sound to mix it in right, and sadly there's a lot of "sounds" out there with no (in-house) mixing skills whatsoever that just plop it on top of the riddim track on their PC.

Great thread here.

Dub Guy said it. It sucks when you hear a sound play thousands of dollars in tunes but didn't take the time to mix down the tune properly. This might be the most important part. For the most part we mix down our own songs but I had a few Bob Andys that were out of tune so I had to send it out to get mixed down.
Re: Dub plates??
May 11, 2014 04:06PM
Appreciate the good words and the bad! Of course anybody that plays music for a crowd wants to make a good impression and have a unique sound that people remember in a good way. Basically Dub plates are just like any other form of art, most people like to acquire the best possible tools they can to entertain people with, true? A Soundman wants the best possible speakers, most Singers want the highest quality microphone, chef's wants the freshest, tastiest ingredients. Entertainers usually do their best for the benefit of the crowd. I can see how some people dislike the concept of it, some people don't want to hear how your sound kill's the competition every song or they smoke copious amounts more than you do or some @#$%&, that's understandable, when i see Dj's spin i want to hear a set with a certain standard or just done tastefully and properly just like the next man or woman. But their is a difference from sound to sound and dj to dj, dub plate to dub plate, set to set.

I just listened to a clash over in Europe on my way home called "Time to Shine" from a few years ago, there was some wiiiicked dubs uniquely cut with custom lyrics and one-off riddims, wicked. But everyone was rushing rushing rushing, screaming broken english over the music and was terrible to listen to. (very possible my sound has had the same complaints before), Granted i have listened to so many clashes i can't remember, this clash just solidified in my mind the difference between sounds that know how to play their music and sounds that don't. To me this is the deciding factor that makes all the difference in the world to the listener. Just like when people say, Reggae sucks, or Jazz is wack, It is strange to me to read that people that have so much love and put so much energy into Reggae Music loath Dubplates or other sounds playing them. In some cases most of these same people have enjoyed Sets by other dj's, even when they have played the horrific dub plates that made their skin crawl after listening to, but they still enjoyed it and forwarded it @ the time, but then end up dissing afterwards. You don't usually here Sounds talking about how boring or unexciting a next man plays his music. Dubplates are a part of the roots of Reggae music, the concept that was born in Jamaican Dancehall's that has branched out into the world influencing entire genres of music.

Either way, love it or hate it, it's a part of the culture and what the culture has evolved into. Some Sounds dub plates add to their show, others don't. At the end of the day, we all deserve a good set to listen to, a good dj is a good dj, dubs or not. Although i personally love it when somebody busts something on dub i haven't heard thats done well it energizes me and makes me feel like my money was well spent, Any dj that has a good selection, quality mixing and a clean heart will thrive in the business of making others enjoy their night.

So nice said it correctly as best anybody could, a Dub plate should be a recording of a hit song made Better, if it's not, it is sub-par. But the concept that nobody has done that correctly since the original days is in the ears of the beholder and everybody is entitled to their opinion on music, after all, it is just art and that is always open to discussion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2014 04:11PM by Octagon.
Re: Dub plates??
May 11, 2014 07:32PM
To Each Their Own

Respect Same Way
Re: Dub plates??
May 12, 2014 10:53AM
Quote
Octagon
........in the ears of the beholder and everybody is entitled to their opinion on music, after all, it is just art and that is always open to discussion.

quoted for truthiness....

--------------------------------------
FullWatts on your stereo...™
Re: Dub plates??
May 13, 2014 04:17PM
In regards to the clashes, do either of these ideas have merit?:

1. Hold a Sound Clash exhibition at SNWMF next year. This would be a great way to expose more people to what a clash is. And because it would be an exhibition, there could be some pre-planning and discussion among the contestants in order to guarantee the most crowd pleasing experience.

2. Are there any Clash Style Mix tapes between two sounds? How about a Jah Warrior Shelter meets Guerrilla Takeover in Sound Clash Style. This would be a collaboration between two sounds to produce a mix tape that is like an ideal clash: juggling, trading songs, minimal talk and yelling, lots of good dub plates and music. No winner declared, just a awesome mix tape. That is something I would pay $10 for.
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