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OT: Gunz in Amerika

Posted by Daniel 
OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 04, 2015 12:08AM


Did you know there have been more 'mass killings' in the USofA this year than there have been days?

Don't believe me? Read it for yourself here - shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015

355 mass shootings in 336 days ... and counting.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 04, 2015 04:44AM
“Check in the real situation … Nation fight against nation … Where did it all begin?
Wo-oo-o-o-oh! Where will it end?” – Bob

“The person who loves their dream of community will destroy community, but the person who loves those around them will create community.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer (a young ethnic German brother studying at Baptist school in USA during the rise of fascism … he return to Germany to speak truth & Adolph Shnicklegruber’s (aka Hitler) bwoys capture and torture him to death.

“And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up … lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.” (Yabby You frequent quote from the ily Bibby)

“Don’t worry bout a ting cuz every likkle ting gunna be alright” - Bob
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 05, 2015 02:22PM
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 06, 2015 02:41AM
Stars and straps forever
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 06, 2015 02:38PM
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 07, 2015 09:49AM
As I have said before - Repeal the 2nd Amendment!!

But it won't happen - 'Muricans are addicted to their guns. We need rehab. Personally, I think that we ought to do what Australia did some 20 years ago:

Before 1996, the states and territories that make up Australia each set their own gun laws. After what became known as the “Port Arthur Massacre” in which a gunman killed 35 people and injured 18 others with a semi-automatic rifle, state and federal governments teamed up on gun reform, according to the Library of Congress:

In 1996, following the Port Arthur massacre, the federal government and the states and territories agreed to a uniform approach to firearms regulation, including a ban on certain semiautomatic and self-loading rifles and shotguns, standard licensing and permit criteria, storage requirements and inspections, and greater restrictions on the sale of firearms and ammunition. Firearms license applicants would be required to take a safety course and show a “genuine reason” for owning a firearm, which could not include self-defense. The reasons for refusing a license would include “reliable evidence of a mental or physical condition which would render the applicant unsuitable for owning, possessing or using a firearm.” A waiting period of twenty-eight days would apply to the issuing of both firearms licenses and permits to acquire each weapon.

The National Firearms Agreement also implemented a gun buyback program that led to 700,000 weapons being voluntarily surrendered.


But this is just my little pipe dream - it'll never happen here because most the vast majority on 'Muricans are afraid of their own shadows. That fear, fueled by the blowtorch of lies that come from reich-wing bloviators (think Hannity, Limbaugh, and O'Reilly) and the criminal NRA, has driven 'Muricans to buy even more guns and ammo, driving sales of weapons to all time highs. These sales are making huge profits for gun manufacturers and merchants worldwide, with 'Murican corporations leading the way. This makes the NRA, the PAC for the firearms industry, cream their jeans and allows them to buy for more politicians.

The shiny apple of American Exceptionalism is rotten at its core; its flesh riddled with worms. We are turning on ourselves in this country and it is no coincidence that this rise in fear is occurring at a point in history where White people will soon be a part of the minority. You and I are witness to the beginning of the end of the American Empire. Time to buy another AR-15.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 07, 2015 06:53PM
people holding on to the antiquated "right to bear arms" probably think slavery should still exist too, since that's when these stupid laws were made...
time to wake up and get with modern times... if you ain't using your rifle to hunt your food, you don't need a rifle at all... or an AR15 for that matter....

--------------------------------------
FullWatts on your stereo...™
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 07, 2015 08:59PM
Considering that there are over 300 million guns in this country it is beyond wishful to think that you can confiscate any meaningful number of them without starting a civil war. There are better solutions. I think the best is to reestablish the authority of the state to commit the mentally ill to facilities for as long as needed, and give families more power to have family members locked up for evaluation. Leave the sane people alone with their guns. Get the crazies off the street. There are about 4K of them on the streets of SF right now, great place to start.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 07, 2015 10:10PM
guns are just like war, good for absolutely NOTHING. wake up sleepyheads

--
blessid love
ras danny
higher reasoning reggae time
KBOO Portland, Full Strength Community Radio
*Love is a net that catches hearts like fish.*
-Muhammad Ali
*I don't like reggae, I love it*
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 07, 2015 10:18PM
Quote
Ras Danny
guns are just like war, good for absolutely NOTHING. wake up sleepyheads

so you do know guns, imperialism, western brute strength, allows you to safely type from your keyboard?

not taking a stance either way in the debate, just calling out your blanket statement as not very reasonable.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 07, 2015 10:45PM
Disagree Walter. I don't like guns, don't own one and probably never will, but I still the think the 2nd amendment is important. If police and military own guns, then citizens deserve the right to own them too. If they take away the guns, fascism is just around the corner. That, and I still believe in one's right to protect themselves.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 08, 2015 12:30AM
I don't need a gun to protect myself.

Also, if "they" come to take your guns, fascism is not around the corner; its right there in your face. How did it happen? Likely because of either inaction or a missed opportunity to vote on the issue when your vote meant something. Fear can goad us either way.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 08, 2015 01:28AM
There is only one way to make the gun debacle here better, and that is to restrict sales of all kinds of guns, increase buybacks to get guns off the street, impose a tax on all ammunition so that they cost 10 times what they do now, and institute a law that all bullets must be marked with the name and info of the buyer upon sale. Ths technology is already possible. Only sell guns with a fingerprint switch so only the buyer can use it. These improvements will bring responsibility to gun owners and users, which they don't currently have. Much of the gun problem is based on their low cost. We have to start getting these weapons of death out of our society. Only safe guns with fingerprint switches and marked ammo should be sold in this country.

All of you who say that it's to protect against a government gone wild, just how many people a day are you willing to sacrifice to alleviate your fear? Because right now we sacrifice 100 people a day on the alter of gun worship. You like hunting? Your freedom to go kill that deer costs 100 human lives a day, in our country alone. It shows you how life is valued in our society, not as high as the right to possess a weapon.

Love that reggae!
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 08, 2015 04:45PM
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 12:26AM
Quote
bigvein
Quote
Ras Danny
guns are just like war, good for absolutely NOTHING. wake up sleepyheads

so you do know guns, imperialism, western brute strength, allows you to safely type from your keyboard?

not taking a stance either way in the debate, just calling out your blanket statement as not very reasonable.

If you are going to call someone out, then stand up one way or the other. Don't call someone out and then leave yourself on the fence. Pick a side and share your thoughts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2015 12:32AM by Rossta8.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 12:31AM
Quote
nomotrouble
There is only one way to make the gun debacle here better, and that is to restrict sales of all kinds of guns, increase buybacks to get guns off the street, impose a tax on all ammunition so that they cost 10 times what they do now, and institute a law that all bullets must be marked with the name and info of the buyer upon sale. Ths technology is already possible. Only sell guns with a fingerprint switch so only the buyer can use it. These improvements will bring responsibility to gun owners and users, which they don't currently have. Much of the gun problem is based on their low cost. We have to start getting these weapons of death out of our society. Only safe guns with fingerprint switches and marked ammo should be sold in this country.

All of you who say that it's to protect against a government gone wild, just how many people a day are you willing to sacrifice to alleviate your fear? Because right now we sacrifice 100 people a day on the alter of gun worship. You like hunting? Your freedom to go kill that deer costs 100 human lives a day, in our country alone. It shows you how life is valued in our society, not as high as the right to possess a weapon.

Now this is sharing your thoughts and coming up with a solution! I love it Nomo! People need to stand accountable and this would hold them accountable. You want a gun? Cool, get one that only allows your finger print to pull the trigger. I see the bullet with someone's name on it really being a problem though. Not sure how that one would work.

Thank you Daniel for sharing that website. Mass shootings in our own country is something we all should know about yet how many of those shootings were reported on social media or other places that people take notice??
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 02:17AM
I heard a thing on the radio talking about the prevelance of mass shootings in the US. They spoke with people in places where the murder rate is MUCH higher, yet these kind of mass killings don't occur there (specifically south africa)

I live in a state where hunting is a way of life and heavily ingrained in the culture. I don't personally partake in hunting, but I know plenty of people that not only provide food for their families, but also for the homeless shelters and soup kitchens through hunting. A recent quote by one of the more famous people of this state:

“Semi-automatics have only two purposes. One is so owners can take them to the shooting range once in awhile, yell yeehaw, and get all horny at the rapid fire and the burning vapor spurting from the end of the barrel. Their other use – their only other use – is to kill people” -Steven King

Ya wanna know how to end gun violence? Get the insurance companies involved. I hate insurance companies, they have made everything way more expensive, and worse off, BUT if you had to take out insurance on every gun that was purchased, we might see a change.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 05:37AM
i drive a car and i burn fire on petroleum corporations too, i stand by my statement. GUNS ARE GOOD FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, just like war...

--
blessid love
ras danny
higher reasoning reggae time
KBOO Portland, Full Strength Community Radio
*Love is a net that catches hearts like fish.*
-Muhammad Ali
*I don't like reggae, I love it*
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 04:33PM
If banning guns or making them super expensive was the answer, Jamaica would have no gun violence whatsoever.

A gun in Jamaica is ridiculously expensive (whether legally or illegally) yet people continue to get them and kill with them. The mindset of people has to change before any gun ban will ever work
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 05:31PM
I dunno, target shooting is a lot of fun. Same with shooting trap and the clays with a shotgun.
Have you ever tried either, or are you just casting judgement from afar?

How about people who use their rifles to put food on the table? Firearms are pretty good and efficient at that.

Just sayin'....Flame suit on.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 05:36PM
Quote

The mindset of people has to change before any gun ban will ever work

While I agree with this, in principal, I also think this is an oversimplification of a complex matter.

The truth of the matter is that, if you compare nations that regulate guns in their countries to those that don't, you'll see there is a SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER death rate for countries that don't regulate firearms. There are exceptions, and Jamaica is certainly one of them, but I suspect that is on account of other factors that include economics and the 'enforcement' of gun control laws.

Sweden and Canada have lots of guns, lots of regulations and very little gun-related deaths. On the other hand, Japan and Korea have virtually no guns and virtually no gun related deaths. In between those is the USofA that has the most guns (by far), very little gun regulations, and one of the highest number of gun related deaths.

So yes, the people's mindset has to change before gun violence can be brought under control.

But, until that time arrives, it seems to me that gun control is needed. And an outright ban on guns not necessary for either hunting, sporting or self-defense should be imposed. Neither of these concepts are either 'new' or run afoul of the 'sacred' 2nd amendment....
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 06:16PM
Quote
Dr Suess
If banning guns or making them super expensive was the answer, Jamaica would have no gun violence whatsoever.

A gun in Jamaica is ridiculously expensive (whether legally or illegally) yet people continue to get them and kill with them. The mindset of people has to change before any gun ban will ever work
I couldnt agree with you more my friend. People are so quick to blame an inanimate object, before they look to the person who missused said object. People have been killing each other in mass numbers before guns, and will continue to do so after guns. There is definatley deeper social and psychological issues as to, why does violence, murder and greed grow in someones heart the way it does for some? I understand survival through violence and what drives a hungry desperate man to commit some acts of violence, but what makes a man or woman want to commit mass murder or oppress others for personal gain, pleasure or personal agenda is the issue that needs to be focused on. Taking away the guns wont help a thing, there are hundreds of ways to kill a man without the use of projectiles and gun powder.

The more things you outlaw, the more outlaws become. - Blue Scholars



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2015 06:31PM by east bay herbalist.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 07:06PM
All emotions aside, fact of the matter is that despite the US having the highest rate of gun ownership in the world, we are far below the average when it comes to murder rate. Crazy people find a way to kill others plain and simple <- actually an argument FOR firearm ownership.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2015 04:03AM by Randys.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 07:17PM
"Here's some common sense for you. I want gun ownership to be as boring and annoying as car ownership. I want you to go to some Department of Weapons and sit for hours. I want folks who own guns to prove their skill, their mental and physical health, and to be licensed and reviewed over the years just as happens with our driver's licenses. You earn the right to own and drive a vehicle; earn the right to own and use a gun."
"Gun ownership isn't some inalienable right granted by God. Remember, the Constitution was written by men coming out of a long and bloody war near the end of the 18th century. It was written for their time. It also included the "right" to own a human being. Things change. Folks evolve."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sara-benincasa/dear-america-heres-your-gun-solution_b_8707916.html

Positive Vibrations w/DJ Treez | Tahoe's Reggae Show | Thursday Nights 10pm | 101.5 FM KTKE | truckeetahoeradio.com
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 08:28PM
DJTreez - it sounds like the author has some opinions on qualifying the right to bear arms which may or may not have merit, but this is drifting away from the emotive arguments of the 'Ban All Guns!!' crowd.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 08:29PM
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 08:50PM
Quote
Randys
DJTreez - it sounds like the author has some opinions on qualifying the right to bear arms which may or may not have merit, but this is drifting away from the emotive arguments of the 'Ban All Guns!!' crowd.

I think most people are simply for better background checks and licensing as well as stopping sales of assault rifles, rather than banning all firearms. The problem is that every time someone brings up a reasonable step at reform, the wacko's counter with "they're trying to take all of our guns away". Where are all the people demanding a blanket ban? Surely someone out there is [sarc], seeing as how those on the far right are constantly reminding us that they have a constitutional right to own them. There is a lot of wiggle room between these polar positions, and we can't let fear-mongering prevent ANY change from ever taking place. We have to start somewhere. How about COMPROMISING IN THE MIDDLE. Our democracy seems to have forgotten how to do that.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 08:53PM
Quote

this is drifting away from the emotive arguments of the 'Ban All Guns!!' crowd.

I'm not seeing where ANYONE is saying to "Ban All Guns." Not from anyone who has posted here nor from any of those people contained in your photo above......
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 09:03PM
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 09:28PM
Quote
Randys

Another great example of a completely fabricated meme getting traction. Too bad the "experts" weren't consulted by the idiot with Photoshop who put it together: [www.everythingpossiblehappens.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2015 12:05AM by Dubguy.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 10:38PM
the technology to label bullets is here now, and could be quickly accomplished at your local ammo store when you buy them. The extra cost will be insignificant compared to the pain and suffering we have now. Then we will know who did what. And give me a break about the assault weapons, no one needs those.

Love that reggae!
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 09, 2015 10:54PM
"Don't ask what you can do to change the world; Ask what you can do to come alive and go do it; Because what this world needs is more people to come alive."
-- Howard Thurman - Martin Luther King's elder teacher when Martin was in theology school



Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 12:40AM
where did this knucklehead randy and his trumpish posts come from?

no one is calling for banning all guns. this is a typical right-wingnut reaction
whenever anyone calls for increased gun control.

randy - when you decide to shoot up the place please start with yourself.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 01:27AM
I think you have some valid points there Dubguy.

Please elaborate how you would like to see California's current 10-day background check - one of the most stringent in the US - made better? An honest request.

Assault Rifles are already illegal unless you have a special and very expensive license granted by the Federal Government after undergoing an exhaustive background check. The word "Assault Rifles" was made up by Anti's to scare people into thinking semi-auto rifles are actually Military grade. True 'Assault Rifles' have select fire and are definitely not for sport.

I agree there is a whole lot of room between the extremes, and that both the far-left 'Antis' and and far-right 'Gunnuts' have to ease up on their stubbornly entrenched positions and compromise.

On the 'Experts' meme.....my point being emotive propaganda cuts both ways and is intellectually dishonest.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 02:00AM
Mulligan - I've been here the whole time - been attending this festy since back in Marysville days.

I don't post often but this topic is of interest to me because I was raised around firearms, enjoy target shooting (not a hunter) and especially enjoy shooting clays. I reason with my peaceful reggae friends as well as my shooting friends on the problem of gun violence in America to try and find a middle ground. When I saw this topic, I decided to post to try and engage the masses for the same reason.

If all you have are insults and personal attacks and nothing of value to add then please refrain from posting. No one is holding a gun to your head..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2015 02:32AM by Randys.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 02:08AM
Here is an interesting gun control study done by Harvard: Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 02:14AM
Quote
Daniel
Quote

The mindset of people has to change before any gun ban will ever work

While I agree with this, in principal, I also think this is an oversimplification of a complex matter.

The truth of the matter is that, if you compare nations that regulate guns in their countries to those that don't, you'll see there is a SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER death rate for countries that don't regulate firearms. There are exceptions, and Jamaica is certainly one of them, but I suspect that is on account of other factors that include economics and the 'enforcement' of gun control laws.

Sweden and Canada have lots of guns, lots of regulations and very little gun-related deaths. On the other hand, Japan and Korea have virtually no guns and virtually no gun related deaths. In between those is the USofA that has the most guns (by far), very little gun regulations, and one of the highest number of gun related deaths.

So yes, the people's mindset has to change before gun violence can be brought under control.

But, until that time arrives, it seems to me that gun control is needed. And an outright ban on guns not necessary for either hunting, sporting or self-defense should be imposed. Neither of these concepts are either 'new' or run afoul of the 'sacred' 2nd amendment....

Daniel - Can you please cite the source of your information - I am interested in this topic and would like to read it.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 02:18AM
Quote
SommerKind
Considering that there are over 300 million guns in this country it is beyond wishful to think that you can confiscate any meaningful number of them without starting a civil war. There are better solutions. I think the best is to reestablish the authority of the state to commit the mentally ill to facilities for as long as needed, and give families more power to have family members locked up for evaluation. Leave the sane people alone with their guns. Get the crazies off the street. There are about 4K of them on the streets of SF right now, great place to start.

I like SommerKind's holistic approach. Interestingly the Finns have firearm ownership rates on par with the US, but don't come anywhere near the murder rate we have here so there is something else in play that seemingly makes Americans want to kill each other.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 07:24PM
randy -
there is no "middle ground" with you gun zealots. You want anyone to be able to have
as many assault rifles, automatic weapons, machine guns etc etc as they want. Because,
as a hunter, shooting deer with uzis is much more pleasureable than just using a regular
old hunting rifle.

you are like a festering boil in this post where everyone is pro-gun control and then you and
your illogical trumpish opinions.
until you say you support the ban of assault rifles you cannot be taken seriously.

i too like to target shoot, rifle and pistol. i don't own a gun but i just might get one as you and
your ilk proliferate. and i hope i have to go through a thorough background check and that there is a
waiting period, things that just irk the heck out of you.
because guns don't kill people - gun nuts kill people.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 09:07PM
Quote
nomotrouble
the technology to label bullets is here now, and could be quickly accomplished at your local ammo store when you buy them. The extra cost will be insignificant compared to the pain and suffering we have now. Then we will know who did what. And give me a break about the assault weapons, no one needs those.

Carl, what technology would they use to label bullets? My fear is that people then start stealing bullets with someone's else's label on them and then using them. Or they start forging other people's label.

That is why I felt this idea would not work.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 10:27PM
Mulligan - your passion is fueled through ignorance my friend.

You justifiably (given what the media has fed you) start with the premise that guns themselves, as tools, contribute to violence. So you immediately associate guns with violence, and after all what kind of person is pro-violence, right? Fear fueled through self-ignorance.

May I politely invite you to join me at the range one weekend so you can face your fear and best it - I'll pay for your ammunition? An honest offer.

If you aren't open to this experience you have already made up your mind and are not worthy of reasoning with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2015 04:40AM by Randys.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 10:47PM
that's right - i have made up my mind. we need stricter gun control and bans
on sales of certain types of guns, and i'm not trying to reason with you because
you too have your mind made up due to EXTREME RIGHT-WINGNUT ignorance.

try reading posts before offering simplistic thoughts...notice i said i do like to shoot so
i will not be joining you at the target range. and my only "fear to face" would be that one of you
extreme gun-nuts would start shooting up the range.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 10:49PM
Quote
Rossta8
Quote
nomotrouble
the technology to label bullets is here now, and could be quickly accomplished at your local ammo store when you buy them. The extra cost will be insignificant compared to the pain and suffering we have now. Then we will know who did what. And give me a break about the assault weapons, no one needs those.

Carl, what technology would they use to label bullets? My fear is that people then start stealing bullets with someone's else's label on them and then using them. Or they start forging other people's label.

That is why I felt this idea would not work.

Some other things to consider:
- Microstamping is not done in the store at the time of purchase. Microstamping the ammunition is achieved by the firing pin having a mark unique to the specific firearm imprinting the mark on to the brass casing. Firing pins can easily be removed from the firearm and ground down to remove the mark which criminals would do (criminals don't follow laws ...It is their job description).
-Marking the bullet itself is no better as it is deformed upon impact with a target.
-Revolvers do not ejects empty casings.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 11:13PM
Quote
mulligan
that's right - i have made up my mind. we need stricter gun control and bans
on sales of certain types of guns, and i'm not trying to reason with you because
you too have your mind made up due to EXTREME RIGHT-WINGNUT ignorance.

try reading posts before offering simplistic thoughts...notice i said i do like to shoot so
i will not be joining you at the target range. and my only "fear to face" would be that one of you
extreme gun-nuts would start shooting up the range.

If you refuse to, or otherwise cannot, elevate yourself above your emotive outbursts then we have nothing left over which to reason.

I don't understand what being Liberal or Conservative has to do with the 2nd amendment.

BTW I voted for Obama twice and have donated to Bernie Sanders campaign - so again your emotion fueled attacks are off base.

BTW2 - Ranking Joe for SNWMF 2016!!!
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 11:19PM
It's amazing to see the NRA gun crowd justify their addiction and reject every possible technology or rule that could help with the current scourge. It's like talking to a heroin addict. Every time something happens, they think Obama's going to take their guns away, and there is a huge rush at the gun and ammo store. Every gun owner should be licensed and insured before they can own and use one, just like a car. After a few insurance companies take hits from these mass shootings, things will change. They will be the ones dictating how much you pay to own a gun. Now what is your objection to gun owners having to buy gun insurance? Just like your car?

Love that reggae!
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 11:34PM
This is my favorite idea!

"Here's some common sense for you. I want gun ownership to be as boring and annoying as car ownership. I want you to go to some Department of Weapons and sit for hours. I want folks who own guns to prove their skill, their mental and physical health, and to be licensed and reviewed over the years just as happens with our driver's licenses. You earn the right to own and drive a vehicle; earn the right to own and use a gun."
"Gun ownership isn't some inalienable right granted by God. Remember, the Constitution was written by men coming out of a long and bloody war near the end of the 18th century. It was written for their time. It also included the "right" to own a human being. Things change. Folks evolve."

Loved the post DJ Trees and thank you for sharing that article.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 11:36PM
Some of these things we are discussing does not come up with the idea of how we are to get the guns off the street that are already illegal or not registered. People are not just going to turn them in.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 10, 2015 11:40PM
more faulty right-wingnut "logic" - the 2d amendment has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
TO DO WITH OWNING/POSSESSION OF ASSAULT RIFLES.

I guess I do get a little emotional when someone defends all the deaths in America caused by guns.

[www.theguardian.com]
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 11, 2015 01:21AM
Quote
mulligan
more faulty right-wingnut "logic" - the 2d amendment has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
TO DO WITH OWNING/POSSESSION OF ASSAULT RIFLES.

I guess I do get a little emotional when someone defends all the deaths in America caused by guns.

[www.theguardian.com]


No one is defending the deaths in America caused by guns. Firearms are inanimate tools no more responsible for deaths than forks are responsible for fat people being fat!

In regards to murders in general, compared to the rest of the world we are not doing so badly - granted these are 'murders' not 'gun deaths'.

- 2013 WORLD MURDER STATISTICS From the World Health Organization <- not paid off by NRA

Per 100,000 citizens per year

Honduras 91.6 (WOW!!)
El Salvador 69.2
Cote d'lvoire 56.9
Jamaica 52.2 <-- Easy now Rasta!
Venezuela 45.1
Belize 41.4
US Virgin Islands 39.2 <--Be careful there Inner Vision
Guatemala 38.5
Saint Kitts and Nevis 38.2
Zambia 38.0
Uganda 36.3
Malawi 36.0
Lesotho 35.2
Trinidad and Tobago 35.2
Colombia 33.4
South Africa 31.8
Congo 30.8
Central African Republic 29.3
Bahamas 27.4
Puerto Rico 26.2
Saint Lucia 25.2
Dominican Republic 25.0
Tanzania 24.5
Sudan 24.2
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9
Ethiopia 22.5
Guinea 22.5
Dominica 22.1
Burundi 21.7
Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7
Panama 21.6
Brazil 21.0
Equatorial Guinea 20.7
Guinea-Bissau 20.2
Kenya 20.1
Kyrgyzstan 20.1
Cameroon 19.7
Montserrat 19.7
Greenland 19.2
Angola 19.0
Guyana 18.6
Burkina Faso 18.0
Eritrea 17.8
Namibia 17.2
Rwanda 17.1
Mexico 16.9
Chad 15.8
Ghana 15.7
Ecuador 15.2
North Korea 15.2
Benin 15.1
Sierra Leone 14.9
Mauritania 14.7
Botswana 14.5
Zimbabwe 14.3
Gabon 13.8
Nicaragua 13.6
French Guiana 13.3
Papua New Guinea 13.0
Swaziland 12.9
Bermuda 12.3
Comoros 12.2
Nigeria 12.2
Cape Verde 11.6
Grenada 11.5
Paraguay 11.5
Barbados 11.3
Togo 10.9
Gambia 10.8
Peru 10.8
Myanmar 10.2
Russia 10.2
Liberia 10.1
Costa Rica 10.0
Nauru 9.8
Bolivia 8.9
Mozambique 8.8
Kazakhstan 8.8
Senegal 8.7
Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7
Mongolia 8.7
British Virgin Islands 8.6
Cayman Islands 8.4
Seychelles 8.3
Madagascar 8.1
Indonesia 8.1
Mali 8.0
Pakistan 7.8
Moldova 7.5
Kiribati 7.3
Guadeloupe 7.0
Haiti 6.9
Timor-Leste 6.9
Anguilla 6.8
Antigua and Barbuda 6.8
Lithuania 6.6
Uruguay 5.9
Philippines 5.4
Ukraine 5.2
Estonia 5.2
Cuba 5.0
Belarus 4.9
Thailand 4.8
Suriname 4.6
Laos 4.6
Georgia 4.3
Martinique 4.2

And ............................................
The United States 4.2 !!!!!!!!!!!!

ALL (109) of the countries above the USA have 100% gun bans.
It might be of interest to note that SWITZERLAND is not shown on this list because it has no statistically significant occurrance of homicide!

Interestingly, Switzerland's government requires that every adult male:
1. Be issued a firearm.
2. Be trained in its use.
3. Maintain marksman qualifications .... yearly.

As most of these countries have 100% ban on firearms, it is safe to assume that if they didn't, then the murder rate would be even much higher.

The real problem we have in the world is murder - someone should make it illegal.

Reggae and Guns - Longing for the way the world should be, but sadly aware of how it actually is.

BTW - F%$k the NRA!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2015 01:25AM by Randys.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 11, 2015 01:36AM
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 11, 2015 02:41AM
So you have no problem with requiring insurance?

Love that reggae!
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 11, 2015 02:25PM
Quote
Randys


ALL (109) of the countries above the USA have 100% gun bans.

In the interest of fairness, I should point out that's not completey true. Jamaica doesn't have a 100% gun ban. It is possible to get a legal firearm here, there's just a lot of hoops you have to jump through to get a license, then after you get the license you have a set amount of time to buy a legal gun (which can be difficult since there are only a few sources to buy them, the supply is low, and the cost is incredibly high). I would consider that to be very high restrictions but not an outright ban... Of course, I have a feeling an outright ban would work just as well as Jamaica's current gun control laws (which also call for very stiff penalties for gun-related crime, yet it still happens all the time)
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 11, 2015 03:57PM
In the interest of fairness, the last post you typed out Randy rates a blazing....



Quote

ALL (109) of the countries above the USA have 100% gun bans.

Ras James has already pointed out that Jamaica does not have a gun ban. I know neither Honduras nor Cuba have gun bans. Randy: can you show me just 5 (out of the 109 countries) that really DO have a gun ban?

Quote

It might be of interest to note that SWITZERLAND is not shown on this list because it has no statistically significant occurrance of homicide!

Actually, Switzerland comes in at .6 homicides per 100K. While that's GREAT, it's hardly 'statistically insignificant' and is still double the rate of Japan or Iceland.

Quote

Interestingly, Switzerland's government requires that every adult male:
1. Be issued a firearm.
2. Be trained in its use.
3. Maintain marksman qualifications .... yearly.

This is TRUE but, what you failed to mention is that done pursuant to Switzerland's mandatory military service for every adult male and the firearms must be returned when the person's military service ends.

Quote

As most of these countries have 100% ban on firearms, it is safe to assume that if they didn't, then the murder rate would be even much higher.

Okay, so you've shot yourself in the foot on two counts with this statement. First, by inserting the word 'most' you negate your (untrue) prior statement that ALL these countries have a 100% ban. But more importantly, your statement that murder rates would be 'even much higher' if there wasn't a ban only solidifies the argument gun bans/restrictions decrease murder rates.

I would suggest that, next time, don't resort to some FB rehash (which is what your post was). In the meantime, I'll wait to learn of the 5 countries from your list that ACTUALLY have "100% gun bans."
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 11, 2015 06:13PM
Heap of good reasonings mi idrens ... IMO the reason we faced with solving the consequence of these issues - is because we the Human Family supposed to figure it our ourself ... but still, we got the help and guidance of our loving Universal Creator, if we so chose ... So let not the secular & the monkey business limit us ... Reggae come from the Spirit Foundation and that the reason - Junior Murvin - in his song about guns & violence - say - "From Genesis to Revelation"







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2015 06:33PM by Peacemakeya.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 11, 2015 07:30PM
Quote
Daniel

Quote

ALL (109) of the countries above the USA have 100% gun bans.


Quote

It might be of interest to note that SWITZERLAND is not shown on this list because it has no statistically significant occurrance of homicide!

Quote

Interestingly, Switzerland's government requires that every adult male:
1. Be issued a firearm.
2. Be trained in its use.
3. Maintain marksman qualifications .... yearly.

typical faux news/right-wingnut strategy.....throw out some semi-true (or more often, completely false) statement.

this is exactly why it is impossible to "reason" with people like you.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 12, 2015 01:58AM
Quote
Daniel
In the interest of fairness, the last post you typed out Randy rates a blazing....



Quote

ALL (109) of the countries above the USA have 100% gun bans.

Ras James has already pointed out that Jamaica does not have a gun ban. I know neither Honduras nor Cuba have gun bans. Randy: can you show me just 5 (out of the 109 countries) that really DO have a gun ban?

Quote

It might be of interest to note that SWITZERLAND is not shown on this list because it has no statistically significant occurrance of homicide!

Actually, Switzerland comes in at .6 homicides per 100K. While that's GREAT, it's hardly 'statistically insignificant' and is still double the rate of Japan or Iceland.

Quote

Interestingly, Switzerland's government requires that every adult male:
1. Be issued a firearm.
2. Be trained in its use.
3. Maintain marksman qualifications .... yearly.

This is TRUE but, what you failed to mention is that done pursuant to Switzerland's mandatory military service for every adult male and the firearms must be returned when the person's military service ends.

Quote

As most of these countries have 100% ban on firearms, it is safe to assume that if they didn't, then the murder rate would be even much higher.

Okay, so you've shot yourself in the foot on two counts with this statement. First, by inserting the word 'most' you negate your (untrue) prior statement that ALL these countries have a 100% ban. But more importantly, your statement that murder rates would be 'even much higher' if there wasn't a ban only solidifies the argument gun bans/restrictions decrease murder rates.

I would suggest that, next time, don't resort to some FB rehash (which is what your post was). In the meantime, I'll wait to learn of the 5 countries from your list that ACTUALLY have "100% gun bans."


You caught me! I posted some info I found a few months back but neglected to verify. I own it, shame on me.

I honestly am trying to find a 'middle road', which extremists on both sides (that’s you Mulligan) say doesn’t exist, and am frustrated by the amount of propaganda on both sides. It is hard to get clear honest data on this polarizing topic.

Having said that Daniel, while you are pointing at me, you have three fingers pointing back at yourself - the original article you linked is also misleading and not 100% true. There is no universally agreed upon definition of ‘Mass Shooting’ so the site made up its own statistics – as admitted to by the people behind it – that is little more than red meat thrown to the Antis.
[www.snopes.com]
Another instance of one side using fuzzy statistics to influence its targeted audience - def not 100% intellectually honest.

I don’t do Facebook, nor am I a member of the NRA. I do get a lot of pro-firearm information from a liberal leaning organization for firearm enthusiasts - The Liberal Gun Club. I urge any free thinking individual to have a look for yourself as firearms are not going anywhere anytime soon. Not all firearms enthusiasts are right wing nuts (though sometimes some of us get a little sloppy and let their nutbaggery get through) and it is refreshing discussing 2A matters with other liberal minded folks.

Again apologies to the masses for my misstep.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2015 01:59AM by Randys.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 12, 2015 02:12AM
Quote
mulligan
more faulty right-wingnut "logic" - the 2d amendment has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
TO DO WITH OWNING/POSSESSION OF ASSAULT RIFLES.

I guess I do get a little emotional when someone defends all the deaths in America caused by guns.

[www.theguardian.com]

Pray tell Mulligan what the 2A is about then?

Assault Rifles are already illegal for civilians to own without a very expensive tax stamp granted by the Fed Gov after undergoing an extensive - I mean open your robe for Uncle Sam to examine everything - background check. The crazy GuNutz you are scared about shooting up the place are too paranoid to go through the process.

What does the word "Assault Rifle" mean to you anyway - how do you define it?
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 12, 2015 02:37AM
I was listening to some old Israel Vibes while at work today. When the old Apple song 'Middle East' cycled through the lyrics struck me as particularly poignant in light of the recent terror attack in San Bernardino...

Watch the Middle East, it starts from there, this here third world slaughter, heading for the west frontier....



Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 15, 2015 12:40AM
Nomo – Many firearm enthusiasts think firearm insurance is a wonderful idea and purchase it directly from the NRA or other private insurance companies. It is actually a smart way to protect their investments so that in the event of a fire or flood, or if the firearms are stolen, the owner has a way to recoup her losses. I don't suppose, based on your comments, that this is what you are referring to however - I think you mean liability insurance.

Quote
nomotrouble
After a few insurance companies take hits from these mass shootings, things will change. They will be the ones dictating how much you pay to own a gun. Now what is your objection to gun owners having to buy gun insurance? Just like your car?

The obvious logical response is – the RIGHT to drive is not protected by the Bill of Rights. Also, the way you phrased your comments makes me concerned that you have ulterior motive when it comes to this insurance, and that hopefully it is a back-door way to taper off firearm ownership. In the interest of honest reasoning however we will we just look at the merits of firearm liability insurance.

PROS - Overall I think the idea of requiring firearm owners to purchase liability insurance for their firearms is actually not a bad idea. Creating a pool of money to help compensate the victims of firearm violence seems to be a reasonable idea. Before I go ‘all in’ with this concept, I would like to hear some more details as to how the program is to be implemented - can the government force private insurers to offer this type of insurance, or will the government take the lead in setting up a federally backed, firearms liability insurance company. I would also think that a cap on the premiums the insurance companies can charge individuals with no record or incidents of accidental or purposeful illegal discharge of their firearms, or thefts of unsecured firearms, would make sense.

CONS - I am concerned that the Antis would frame the new insurance program such that every time there is an instance of a “mass shooting”, there would be an across the board increase in premiums for all insured. Eventually over time some people at the low end economically will not be able to afford it and will surrender their firearms. Over time it will lead to a ‘classist’ solution where only rich people who can afford the super-expensive insurance will have firearms – definitely not what the founding fathers envisioned. This will only impact lawful firearm owners as the black market gun dealer selling firearms from trunks of their cars area not going to bother requiring this insurance to complete their illicit sales.

Similarly I don’t think the two terrorists in San Bernardino would have been too concerned with their premiums going up due to their terrorist behavior. So even though the idea of ‘gun insurance’ has an obvious feel-good appeal, as they say, the devil is in the details. Now if we could just get the extremists on both sides of the issue come to the fence to discuss these reasonable but seemingly elusive 'middle of the road ideas' for firearm ownership.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2015 12:42AM by Randys.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 16, 2015 10:54PM
Gunz in Serbia



Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 17, 2015 12:17AM
Nomo - are you an advocate for the same level of taxation on herbs?
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 17, 2015 12:31AM
I had no clue that herbs would be so heavily taxed here in Oregon. If you have your card no biggie same prices but the average guy on the street is paying big money come January when things get taxed. If you pay $30 for an 8th you will pay $60 once the taxes start my buddy at Dr Jollys told me. Thankfully I am a card holder and mostly enjoy wax these days anyway. Dabs!
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 17, 2015 12:53AM
Quote

If you pay $30 for an 8th you will pay $60 once the taxes start my buddy at Dr Jollys told me.

Per this article:

Measure 91 provides that all medical marijuana dispensaries will be required to collect a 25 percent tax on recreational marijuana sales, according to the Oregon Health Authority.

When OLCC-regulated retail stores begin popping up in 2016, those sales will fall under a different tax structure. The state will impose a 17 percent tax on all retail sales, and local cities and counties can impose up to an additional 3 percent tax on purchases at retail stores.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 17, 2015 03:42AM
IYah trod, i was most recently speaking of insurance, not taxes. i wanted ammo taxed, so it was real expensive.

But i don't mind taxes being applied to herb. taxes are part of life here, it's how we pay for things. At one club i go to all the herb is 10 bucks a gram. so ounces of kgb are 280. then there's another club i go to where the ounces of kgb are 375. there is tax in both places, and honestly more of the cheaper clubs products are high grade compared to the more expensive club. so i'd much rather shop at the cheaper club and pay the lower tax there. my point is the price of herb varies so much i don't mind paying tax on it. Tax will smooth the way to legality.

Love that reggae!
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 17, 2015 05:13PM
Greetings Nomo,

Sure, but in this case, whether its insurance or taxes; your approach is all about making it more expensive, as if it is the solution to "restrict" bad behavior in terms of guns. I see lots of problems in what you propose, not to mention a bit of hypocrisy. I get that taxes help pay for things, lol. I read that you don't mind taxes on herbs; but that is in part because you "know" where the good deals are. And what if you didn't? Wouldn't you really look for a good deal, possibly even "break the law" to get your herbs? Search for the loophole? It would be good to recognize, that in the eyes of the law, your herbs are a "vice"; similarly, firearms are "restricted" by the ATF.

I get the good use of taxes, and I get good laws; but why do we always resort to More Government babysitting, more laws, and more FEES? We propose them when it hits the pocket of someone else, but we wouldn't want it on ourselves. Also, do you get the FULL implication of what you are suggesting by having insurance companies pay for someone's bad behavior? I get it to some extent, the logic of what you are saying. But on the other hand, how can a company be responsible for someone going over the deep end, or what ever the case may be, that causes them to kill with guns. Where is the personal accountability?

In the context of more gun control. This country already has a good example of gun control; and its failure. Convicted felons are NOT allowed to possess firearms. How well does that work out? More regulation and more cost is only going to harm the commoner who does not have bad intentions. The only ones left will be those of criminal intent, or the wealthy who "collect" their prize possessions.

Things will not get better until the mental gets better; cut and clear.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 17, 2015 05:40PM
Quote

your approach is all about making it more expensive, as if it is the solution to "restrict" bad behavior in terms of guns.

Well, I won't pretend to speak for Nomo but, what you've mentioned here is something commonly known as "social engineering.' The idea being to give incentives to people to engage in good behavior. Society likes things like giving to charities, solar energy and automobiles that get good gas mileage, so these things are given 'tax credits'. On the other hand, things like smoking burning fossil fuels and the like are viewed as bad so they get taxed.

Part of the reason for it is that, while ALL actions have consequences, people don't always pay the direct consequences for their actions. For instance, the Bay Area's pollution ends up harming not the people of the Bay Area, but those that live in the central valley (due to winds). So, the government puts a tax on gasoline. While most of that $ goes to pay for roads and the like, some of that money also goes to alleviate the harm created by the pollution cars emit.

Personally, I'm a big fan of social engineering. While it would ideal if we lived in a world where people always 'did the right thing' the truth is that it takes economic incentives to get most people to do that. Why is Wal-Mart so BIG? Because people see the 'everyday low prices' and turn a blind eye to the fact that the products they are buying come from slave/child labor and factories that emit toxic fumes by the score.

I'm not a big fan of guns. I don't engage in hunting or sporting. Having said that, I don't believe the price of guns should be artificially increased (through taxation) because I DO believe than guns DO have a place in our society (for those reasons as well as self-defense). On the other hand, I STRONGLY BELIEVE that reasonable restrictions need to be placed on those that wish to own guns. These include background checks, passing a test to demonstrate one's ability to safely use and store guns, that every gun be registered, and that systems be put in place in order to determine which gun shot which bullet.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that "Things will not get better until the mental gets better" BUT, until that time, we need to take actions to insure that people can remain alive until that day comes.....
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 17, 2015 08:04PM
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 17, 2015 09:55PM
Jeff PERFECT! smiling smiley

~Highest Heightz Every Time~
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 18, 2015 02:43AM
Okay, i admit it, i stole the idea from Chris Rock!

I think everyone believes in social engineering when it concerns something near and dear to them. All those small government republicans turn profligate spenders when it comes to war and borders. Yes, i want to make bullets so expensive that they are rarely used. Not 5000 dollars each, but something with meaning. Unless you go to a firing range where you could buy bullets to use there, i have no problem with that. The problem is that the cost of all these firearms is about 100 lives a day in our country. Thats too expensive for me, and it surprises me that it isn't too expensive for so many others.

Love that reggae!
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 18, 2015 04:43AM
I can honestly say I agree that all of your (Daniel) suggestions for gun control are well good, reasonable and justifiable. Yes indeed, I am sure we all see value in “Social Engineering”, though like anything else, it has to be measured. Some call it the “Power of the Purse”. When it comes to eugenics, I am definitely not for social engineering, and when it comes to sanctions on the world stage, it is a slippery slope. In the context of a “Carbon tax” it is a great concept. Nomo; I am neither a democrat nor a republican in the strict sense of either, but I can say that bleeding heart liberalism within reggae community seems a bit like an oxymoron to me. With that said, I value life with Glory and Honor onto our Creator. I just recognize the “balanced medium” as I type from the Deep South within the U S of A, contrasted with the acknowledgement that most readers on this phorum are from the west coast. Some perspective; I saw on the news tonight, a story about folks in San Fran making homes out of shipping containers to escape $3500 rent prices for one bedroom corporate apartments. In the delta of Mississippi, a fried chicken lunch plate, with salad, ice tea and red velvet cake goes for a total of $6.00.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 18, 2015 12:43PM
And i value life with glory and honor unto man.

Love that reggae!
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 18, 2015 03:32PM
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 18, 2015 03:57PM
Quote
IYah Trod


thread done!
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 18, 2015 06:48PM
Respek iYah Trod - Refreshing perspective not from the left coast.

Here is one for both the rifle collector enthusiasts and the left coast hippy/rasta crowd - Menelik's Mauser.
Built around 1911-12, carved and inlaid with silver, ivory and mother of pearl.
Emperor Menelik was evidently a great fan of Mauser sporting rifles.
This rifle was passed down to his son Emperor Haile Selassie I - AKA Ras Tafari Makonnen.
Engraved with one royal Lion of Judah on the receiver and the hand carved into the stock.

Well cool and priceless.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2015 06:51PM by Randys.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 18, 2015 11:26PM
thumbs up! Blessed Randys; that is a nice piece of history and craftsmanship!
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 19, 2015 10:01PM
IyahTrod: Love your post but the "Carbon Tax" is actually a lame concept and just a band-aid for the Climate change problem that allows the corporations to keep on polluting. What we need is radical change, a "Green New Deal", where we transition to a renewable energy economy. Won't happen until we stop catering to Big Oil though. I think Bernie could help set us on that path (hopefully!).

Bless!
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 20, 2015 02:16AM
[www.npr.org]

There's a lot of emotional thrashing and hand-wringing regarding gun violence. I happen to live in a city where I have attended too many sad funerals that are the result of gun play. I posted the above as a reality-fix to some of the more hysterical anti-gun rhetoric we see today. Please note this is from NPR, hardly an apologist for gun violence.

First, those with absolutist views either in favor of 'gun rights', or thinks we can flatly eradicate firearms from this nation, are in my view deluded.

If you wish to have an astoundingly ugly civil war in this nation Daniel, try seizing weapons from private citizens. Imagine Ruby Ridge amplified a million-fold in the rural areas of the nation. Imagine Urban spaces becoming far more deadly fire-zones than the worst already are.

Yes, I am a gun owner. Yes, I grew up in an era and region where any male not in prison or a minister owned firearms. I have always considered myself a 2nd Amendment supporter. I will also readily say the NRA IS A CYNICAL REACTIONARY AND DANGEROUS lobby for the gun manufacturers. While believing it would be proper to tighten up background checks and a number of other actions that would be helpful in reining in irresponsible individuals having easy access, it is a fool's paradise to think more laws will in and of itself will reduce deaths.

Finally, last week I spoke to someone employed in the state prison system in my state. I said 'I understand that if tomorrow we quit filling our prisons with non-violent drug offenders, you'd be out of a job tomorrow(she laughed and said 'you're right!'). But how about this---let's allow people to keep their weapons, but if anyone even HAS a firearm in possession while committing a crime(much less use one), whatever their sentence is, tack on an automatic minimum sentence of 15 years, period. First offense. Miake a 'straw purchase' for anyone? 5 year minimum sentence. Make it absolutely clear the illegal use of firearms will result in the same sort of draconian sentences drug possession and sale always have in the past----that way, we can release people serving time for having marijuana, crack, whatever, the jails are once more filled to capacity, and YOU keep your job.'

We live in crucial times, needless to say...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 02:17AM by papa ray.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
December 25, 2015 05:55PM
Blessed Reggabe!:

By no means would I suggest that a Carbon Tax is our final solution, or a justification for continued persistence of fossil fuel consumption. I do think they have potential as a usable metric; particularly in conjunction with the science behind carbon sequestration. Carbon Taxes have their place as one means of "theoretically" restricting flagrant and excessive fossil fuel use while we "wean" ourselves off of them, though the mechanism can certainly be corrupted by the bigger heads of industry.

Unfortunately, I just don't see us abandoning petrol overnight and as we transition, the control of the "power" will likely not change. Bernie Sanders has endorsed carbon taxes; however, though I personally like a lot of what Bernie says on a number of issues, I think some of what he is offering is beyond what can be delivered (i.e. raising the minimum wage to $15 for instance).
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
January 03, 2016 06:49PM
This photographer came up with the idea of photographing American firearm owners and their firearms at the range on the day after Christmas.
I think he went into this with an open mind and came out with a new perspective on American firearm ownership.

[www.liveleak.com]

Several folks look like ones you might meet at Sierra while queuing up to get into the bowl area or chilling in the dancehall.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2016 10:09PM by Randys.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
January 03, 2016 09:21PM
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
January 07, 2016 01:11AM
No matter what side of the gun control debate you fall, this Buzzfeed video is a fun watch.





Other than maybe Allison, I don't think the experience inspired any of them to have a change of heart.
Have to give them credit though for being sporty and facing their fears.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
January 07, 2016 01:43AM
Liking guns and wanting stricter gun control laws are not mutually exclusive concepts.

Americans like guns, and 75% of Americans would oppose the banning of handguns.

But Americans also like gun control laws, and 89% of Americans favor requiring background checks on people buying guns at gun shows or online...
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
January 07, 2016 02:23AM
2A supporter right here. Never owned a firearm in my life. Guns don't kill people. people kill people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2016 07:12AM by Stevo.
Re: OT: Gunz in Amerika
January 07, 2016 11:49PM
Here's one for the anti-gun crowd.

[theweek.com]

The author is a statist and feels that only the government should have a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence which in turn fosters social order.
I don't agree with him but in the spirit of honest discourse on this topic thought I would post it here for others to read.
He definitely put some thought into his argument and I give him credit for trying to come up with a solution other than the usual platitudes.
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