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Wailers Go To Court

Posted by Movement Music 
Wailers Go To Court
August 26, 2016 06:22PM
EX-WAILERS MEMBERS GO TO COURT
By Associated Press
Posted Friday, August 26, 2016 at 2:29 am

Former members of Jamaican reggae band The Wailers, which played alongside Bob Marley, are going to court to try to stop the group they left from performing under the same name. Aston “Family Man” Barrett and other ex-Wailers members said in a petition filed in a Virginia Beach court this week that the reggae group currently preforming as The Wailers is a sham because it includes no members of the original band. They’re asking the court to act quickly and block the band from using the name, noting that it is set to play in Virginia at the Lockn’ Festival this weekend.

The court set a hearing for Aug. 31, said attorney Stephen Screnci, who is representing Barrett and the others. Asked if that meant the band would still be allowed to play this weekend, Screnci said he didn’t know for sure. “There’s a lot of people buying tickets that think they’re going to see The Wailers and they’re not,” he said of the current band in general. “If you advertised as The Beatles and you showed up and there were no Beatles, I think you’d be disappointed,” he said.

Al Anderson, Tyrone Downie and Earl Lindo, who each joined the band in the ‘70s before Marley passed away in 1981, are also joining Barrett in the case. Michael Jones, who currently manages the band that performs as The Wailers, said Thursday that he hadn’t yet read the filing. But he said that dozens of musicians have played under the Wailers name over the years. The current band is “what’s left of the same band that has played continuously since 1981,” Jones said. “It’s a revolving door of musicians that have played with The Wailers. It always has been,” Jones said. “We have a wonderful band that is recognized worldwide as The Wailers.” No one responded Thursday to an email sent to Monterey International, a booking agency named in the filing. Barrett, who joined The Wailers in 1969 as its bassist, left the group several months ago, but the band continues to use his name and likeness in promotional materials, the petition for injunctive relief says. Barrett and the others accuse the group of deceiving consumers and concert organizers by leaving the impression that original members are still part of the band.

“Not only is defendants’ use of the name damaging to plaintiffs in terms of profits illicitly gained by defendants, every poor performance by the sham Wailers and every poor experience a consumer has with defendants reflects negatively on the plaintiffs, especially for consumers that attend defendants’ shows expecting to see members of the original band The Wailers,” the filing says.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 26, 2016 08:32PM
Are there similar legal remedies available in Africa, Middle East ? Legal remedies that are NOT based on western standards?
I doubt it. What you are left with in many of these non-US,non-EU places is simply tribal justice.
Meaning, if there is a wrong, one has to make it right by dealing with a next mano-y-mano. hand to hand. Wild west style.

See not everything that comes out of the west is a bad thing..

Sometimes we get clouded thinking that the west is a place of slavery, oppression, etc etc.
However, where there is perceived bad, there is also PLENTY to be thankful for.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2016 08:32PM by bigvein.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 26, 2016 10:39PM
Sad thing is the current "Wailers" have excellent musicians including several JA veteran hornsmen
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 27, 2016 01:56AM
who are these current wailers?

Love that reggae!
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 27, 2016 04:56PM
i think the drummie is bro zeb from ghana who played w/ fams
dunno the rest
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 27, 2016 05:01PM
drummer on the right
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 27, 2016 05:01PM
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 27, 2016 06:19PM
Tyrone Downie wrote: The sad irony of this situation is that the person that Family man is suing is the mother of some of his children who he had used as his manager while touring with his Wailers band consisting of the same members of the fake Wailers , this band should never even have the name wailers in the first place but Wailer as Family Man was the only Wailer in that band so isnt this a case of the pot cursing the kettle???
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 27, 2016 06:41PM
Fams is the authentic Wailers - the others are a 'Bob Marley Tribute' band like an Elvis Tribute etc. .... An interesting historical footnote is that Bob & the Wailers were not the original Wailers





but this tribute band business is the small of it compared to Fams not getting his song writing credits for much of Bob's output ... that was not a problem when Bob was in this world, because Bob was totally generous & sharing ... but what happened after Bob vanq is something else ............ a court of law & a court of justice is not always the same thing

Bob is presently one of the highest posthumous entertainment $$ earner generating over $20million per year Bob Marley & the Wailer$$$$

those of good intention in the Marley estate need fix this and provide Fams with what is rightfully his! Calling Ziggy ... you're a good lad - it's on you to do the right thing. R U picking up now ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2016 06:31PM by Peacemakeya.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 28, 2016 06:08PM
Wailers just starting here...free Stream from Lockn in VA

[fans.com]
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 29, 2016 03:57AM
Quote
Peacemakeya

those of good intention in the Marley estate need fix this and provide Fams with what is rightfully his! Calling Ziggy ... you're a good lad - it's on you to do the right thing. R U picking up now ?


if we want to project positive energies into the 'wheel', then why refer to a grown man as a 'lad'
ziggy is touching 50 now..
ok.. so maybe we are all lads in the eternal perspective.. but in this terra-formical world he is not.

to the trained, overly offended, PC eye, lad can be seen as a euphemism for boy..

in all seriousness, folks will NEVER win once they play the PC card. the same card you throw down, can also be sent back your way.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 29, 2016 04:10PM
Anyone who is buying a ticket to see the "Wailers" is buying a ticket to see a tribute band. This is just foolishness.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 29, 2016 05:25PM
The phony Wailers are scheduled to play at the Del Mar Racetrack down here in San Diego this Friday. Definitely not going to check them out this time without Family Man. What a disappointment.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 29, 2016 05:33PM
Quote
Spear Burning
The phony Wailers are scheduled to play at the Del Mar Racetrack down here in San Diego this Friday. Definitely not going to check them out this time without Family Man. What a disappointment.

What the difference if Family plays with them? I mean all respect due to the elder, but what is Robbie toured as Black Uhuru? Would you buy a ticket for that?
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 29, 2016 06:16PM
Seems to me this ship sailed along time ago.

Positive Vibrations w/DJ Treez | Tahoe's Reggae Show | Thursday Nights 10pm | 101.5 FM KTKE | truckeetahoeradio.com
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 29, 2016 07:20PM
if a show was booked as "sly & robbie" and then you got there and it's "steve & bobby" playing black uhuru songs, i imagine you'd be pretty irritated....

--------------------------------------
FullWatts on your stereo...™
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 29, 2016 08:25PM
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 29, 2016 08:56PM
Quote
Peacemakeya
Fams is the authentic Wailers - the others are a 'Bob Marley Tribute' band like an Elvis Tribute etc. .... An interesting historical footnote is that Bob & the Wailers were not the original Wailers





but this tribute band business is the small of it compared to Fams not getting his song writing credits for much of Bob's output ... that was not a problem when Bob was in this world, because Bob was totally generous & sharing ... but what happened after Bob vanq is something else ............ a court of law & a court of justice is not always the same thing

Bob is presently one of the highest posthumous $$ earner in the entertainment industshitty generating over $20million per year Bob Marley & the Wailer$$$$

those of good intention in the Marley estate need fix this and provide Fams with what is rightfully his! Calling Ziggy ... you're a good lad - it's on you to do the right thing. R U picking up now ?



Bingo! Great post. Differences aside, the Marley family (Chris Blackwell and Rita too) should really be ashamed of the way that they treated the Barret brothers after Bob's death.

I posted something similar in another recent thread but the Barret brothers are the only members of the Wailers to have been behind (co-produced and played on) the Seminal breakout records of several artists.

Just to name a few, Alpha Blondie (Jerusalem), Bunny Wailer (Black-heart Man), Peter Tosh (Legalize It), some of the heavy Israel Vibes material, some of the best of Rita's material and on and on and on. No other Wailers created anything on this level outside of their work with Bob (as much as I like Bunny)...

Each of those records has the easily identifiable "Wailers Sound". Aston and Carleton are the Wailers Sound. Personally I would be heartbroken if I saw my life's work earning millions of dollars for others but could not reap a penny of it - being forced to tour to survive in my late 60's? Ouch!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2016 09:01PM by IamReggae.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 29, 2016 09:17PM
Quote
Ras_Adam
i think the drummie is bro zeb from ghana who played w/ fams
dunno the rest


Another strange thing I have noticed is that the drummer is referred to as "Drummie Zeb" in a lot of "Wailer's" promotional material. The original "Drummie Zeb" is the drummer from ASWAD! Why is the Wailer's cover band drummer using that name anyway? Seems so odd to me...
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 29, 2016 09:23PM
both zebulon drummers
a
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 29, 2016 10:17PM
I don't get it. Can u explain?
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 30, 2016 12:28AM
we 12 tribes are located around the world including Ghana and London/Manchester
those TTOI members born in september are from the tribe of Zebulon
both of these drummers (drummies) are Zebs
adam simeon(May born)
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 30, 2016 03:55AM
Quote
DJ Treez
Seems to me this ship sailed along time ago.

Totally
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 30, 2016 10:17AM
here's a 3rd drummie Zeb from Cali
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 30, 2016 02:27PM
Quote
akee123
Sad thing is the current "Wailers" have excellent musicians including several JA veteran hornsmen

You said it. Saw them at Reggae Rising years ago, and they set the stage on fire. I am also into some of the jam bands, and was quite pleased to hear them jam out some of their songs. These cats can play. I hope they get it resolved, cause i would see these guys no matter what their name was.
AKA
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 31, 2016 12:18AM
I built a beautiful home in San Francisco back in 1969. This house was built so unique, so solid, and with so much of my personal craftsmanship that it totally stood out from any other house in the city. There was no doubt that I was the only builder that could make something as unique as that. Nobody could ever to this day deny that it was made by me.

In 1971 I sold the house to John for $100,000. I really felt that that was a fair amount for the house and I even got paid more than the average builder because my house was totally unique. John was even able to rent out all the extra rooms in the house for inflated prices because the house was so great and everybody wanted to live there. I chose not to invest that $100,000, but instead I decided to use it to help support the 25 children that I was raising.

Now 45 years later John sold the house for $2,500,000. How is it even fair that John makes $2,400,000 + 45 years worth of rent, all from my greatest life achievement when I only got $100,000? Everybody that sees that house knows that I built it, you can tell just by looking at it. I should be entitled to at least some of that money right?

I think I'm going to go to court and sue John for my rightful share of my lives greatest achievement. I feel that John needs fix this and provide me with what is rightfully mine. Personally I am heartbroken as I see my life's work earning millions of dollars for others but can not reap a penny of it - being forced to be a builder to survive in my late 60's? Ouch!

Make sense?
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 31, 2016 01:44AM
so you are saying that fams and co

1. agreed to one time payments for session work ?

or

2. sold their publishing rights instead of collecting royalties over time ?


Quote
AKA
I built a beautiful home in San Francisco back in 1969. This house was built so unique, so solid, and with so much of my personal craftsmanship that it totally stood out from any other house in the city. There was no doubt that I was the only builder that could make something as unique as that. Nobody could ever to this day deny that it was made by me.

In 1971 I sold the house to John for $100,000. I really felt that that was a fair amount for the house and I even got paid more than the average builder because my house was totally unique. John was even able to rent out all the extra rooms in the house for inflated prices because the house was so great and everybody wanted to live there. I chose not to invest that $100,000, but instead I decided to use it to help support the 25 children that I was raising.

Now 45 years later John sold the house for $2,500,000. How is it even fair that John makes $2,400,000 + 45 years worth of rent, all from my greatest life achievement when I only got $100,000? Everybody that sees that house knows that I built it, you can tell just by looking at it. I should be entitled to at least some of that money right?

I think I'm going to go to court and sue John for my rightful share of my lives greatest achievement. I feel that John needs fix this and provide me with what is rightfully mine. Personally I am heartbroken as I see my life's work earning millions of dollars for others but can not reap a penny of it - being forced to be a builder to survive in my late 60's? Ouch!

Make sense?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2016 01:47AM by bigvein.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 31, 2016 05:59PM
Quote
AKA say
I built a beautiful home in San Francisco back in 1969

A few points to ponder:

The parable does not translate to the present day SF real estate inflation wave. When Fam’s mistakenly signed his rights away for a handful of monkey $ – the BMW deluxe ‘mansion’ was already top of the international mu$ic marketplace

While your parable sale of the ‘mansion’ was covered by property laws – Jamaica at that time had no intellectual property laws – it was governed by a might-is-right anything goes grabalicious mentality … This not only happened to Fam’s – it happened to much of that generation of music creators ‘Standing in the Shadows of Trenchtown.’ But - perhaps because Bob M became the figurehead of the era – Fam’s is now the figurehead of that disenfranchisement … AKA that is aka a rip-off

The evolution of society & the system of law is not a fixed ting … it is a continuum in development & within common-law are certain principles: ‘Justice must not only be done but must be seen to be done.’ And, ‘there is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.’

Yea sure another legal-beagle mainstay is, “ignorance of the law is no excuse’ … that’s fine on a level playing field … but Fams and much of that generation of music creators were barely literate ghetto survivors.

So justice and mercy is called for – and woe pon dem who put dem obsession in silver & gold … do dem tink dem gunnna rent U-Hall fi pull behind dem hearse?

again – Calling Ziggy … you a good lad* … this was not of your doing but now your parent’s generation is out or soon nuff on the way out … is pon the yute now fi do di right ting

but lest we over-fixate pon the iniquities of that era … let’s also celebrate with gratitude the positive … for tide goes out and tide come in … and ‘Standing in the Shadows of Trenchtown’ was a cultural renaissance high tide that will go into the Book of Life



……………………
* in old time people’s culture the word ‘lad’ is not a put-down … is a name of affection ... BV did u pick up that PM mi sent u last year?
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 31, 2016 06:43PM
Quote
AKA
I built a beautiful home in San Francisco back in 1969. This house was built so unique, so solid, and with so much of my personal craftsmanship that it totally stood out from any other house in the city. There was no doubt that I was the only builder that could make something as unique as that. Nobody could ever to this day deny that it was made by me.

In 1971 I sold the house to John for $100,000. I really felt that that was a fair amount for the house and I even got paid more than the average builder because my house was totally unique. John was even able to rent out all the extra rooms in the house for inflated prices because the house was so great and everybody wanted to live there. I chose not to invest that $100,000, but instead I decided to use it to help support the 25 children that I was raising.

Now 45 years later John sold the house for $2,500,000. How is it even fair that John makes $2,400,000 + 45 years worth of rent, all from my greatest life achievement when I only got $100,000? Everybody that sees that house knows that I built it, you can tell just by looking at it. I should be entitled to at least some of that money right?

I think I'm going to go to court and sue John for my rightful share of my lives greatest achievement. I feel that John needs fix this and provide me with what is rightfully mine. Personally I am heartbroken as I see my life's work earning millions of dollars for others but can not reap a penny of it - being forced to be a builder to survive in my late 60's? Ouch!

Make sense?



I'm sorry but this is the most ridiculous analogy I have ever read. There is no comparison whatsoever with the analogy you just provided and what took place with the Wailers. Ever heard of intellectual property (IP)? The Wailers "were" a family when Bob was alive and were taken care of.

Most of the JA musicians were not well educated or savvy enough to sign contracts or even negotiate those contracts when they were presented by record companies. Does that make it right to "steal" their IP? Does that make it just to "steal" their life's work? Especially for Rita who was there and saw it all go down.

I will say that I do understand her viewpoint though. For her this is payback for all the sleeping around Bob did. She stood in the wings patiently and has won the "game of thrones" so to speak.

But seriously, for the sake of honor and integrity...the Marley family and Rita should make it right without the need for a court case. Fams did not "sell" his music or the IP to anyone. He was duped and I don't see how having 25 kids affects this conversation. How many kids did Bob father?

Everyone who knows the real story knows that Fams and Carlton came up with the arrangements that propelled Bob to stardom. When you hum a Marley song what do you hum? either the lyrics.....or the bass-line. You can pretty much replace all the other musicians and still have the "Wailers Sound". It's been proven many times over. See my list of Barret brothers backed tunes above.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2016 06:47PM by IamReggae.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 31, 2016 06:44PM
Thank you Bigvein!



Quote
bigvein
so you are saying that fams and co

1. agreed to one time payments for session work ?

or

2. sold their publishing rights instead of collecting royalties over time ?


Quote
AKA
I built a beautiful home in San Francisco back in 1969. This house was built so unique, so solid, and with so much of my personal craftsmanship that it totally stood out from any other house in the city. There was no doubt that I was the only builder that could make something as unique as that. Nobody could ever to this day deny that it was made by me.

In 1971 I sold the house to John for $100,000. I really felt that that was a fair amount for the house and I even got paid more than the average builder because my house was totally unique. John was even able to rent out all the extra rooms in the house for inflated prices because the house was so great and everybody wanted to live there. I chose not to invest that $100,000, but instead I decided to use it to help support the 25 children that I was raising.

Now 45 years later John sold the house for $2,500,000. How is it even fair that John makes $2,400,000 + 45 years worth of rent, all from my greatest life achievement when I only got $100,000? Everybody that sees that house knows that I built it, you can tell just by looking at it. I should be entitled to at least some of that money right?

I think I'm going to go to court and sue John for my rightful share of my lives greatest achievement. I feel that John needs fix this and provide me with what is rightfully mine. Personally I am heartbroken as I see my life's work earning millions of dollars for others but can not reap a penny of it - being forced to be a builder to survive in my late 60's? Ouch!

Make sense?
AKA
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 31, 2016 10:28PM
Quote
bigvein
so you are saying that fams and co

1. agreed to one time payments for session work ?

or

2. sold their publishing rights instead of collecting royalties over time ?


Quote
AKA
I built a beautiful home in San Francisco back in 1969. This house was built so unique, so solid, and with so much of my personal craftsmanship that it totally stood out from any other house in the city. There was no doubt that I was the only builder that could make something as unique as that. Nobody could ever to this day deny that it was made by me.

In 1971 I sold the house to John for $100,000. I really felt that that was a fair amount for the house and I even got paid more than the average builder because my house was totally unique. John was even able to rent out all the extra rooms in the house for inflated prices because the house was so great and everybody wanted to live there. I chose not to invest that $100,000, but instead I decided to use it to help support the 25 children that I was raising.

Now 45 years later John sold the house for $2,500,000. How is it even fair that John makes $2,400,000 + 45 years worth of rent, all from my greatest life achievement when I only got $100,000? Everybody that sees that house knows that I built it, you can tell just by looking at it. I should be entitled to at least some of that money right?

I think I'm going to go to court and sue John for my rightful share of my lives greatest achievement. I feel that John needs fix this and provide me with what is rightfully mine. Personally I am heartbroken as I see my life's work earning millions of dollars for others but can not reap a penny of it - being forced to be a builder to survive in my late 60's? Ouch!

Make sense?


BV - I honestly don't know the real facts surrounding his business dealings, but with my understanding of his current situation I would assume that.....

1. He agreed to one time payments for session work

in addition to

2. I would hope that he acquired publishing rights at some point, but fear that he did indeed sell them for cash up front and forfeited his royalties.

So yes, it is these assumptions that led me to the house investment analogy. Both Fams and myself thought short term instead of long term, and it didn't pay off in our situations. Now if Bob Marley turned out to have the staying power and international appeal of Leif Garret, and my one of a kind house was built in Detroit Michigan, then both Fams and I would be looking more like like the savvy business men that we thought we were.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 31, 2016 10:43PM
I think anyone with doubts should read this book. IMO it's the best and most thorough Wailers book ever written and I have read probably 99% of them. Written over the course of a decade?, It tells the story from all possible sides with eyewitness accounts. It places no judgement and lets the reader decide what actually took place based on the evidence. I bet you will have a different conception of what happened to Fams after reading this book.


[www.amazon.com]
AKA
Re: Wailers Go To Court
August 31, 2016 11:18PM
Quote
IamReggae
Quote
AKA
I built a beautiful home in San Francisco back in 1969. This house was built so unique, so solid, and with so much of my personal craftsmanship that it totally stood out from any other house in the city. There was no doubt that I was the only builder that could make something as unique as that. Nobody could ever to this day deny that it was made by me.

In 1971 I sold the house to John for $100,000. I really felt that that was a fair amount for the house and I even got paid more than the average builder because my house was totally unique. John was even able to rent out all the extra rooms in the house for inflated prices because the house was so great and everybody wanted to live there. I chose not to invest that $100,000, but instead I decided to use it to help support the 25 children that I was raising.

Now 45 years later John sold the house for $2,500,000. How is it even fair that John makes $2,400,000 + 45 years worth of rent, all from my greatest life achievement when I only got $100,000? Everybody that sees that house knows that I built it, you can tell just by looking at it. I should be entitled to at least some of that money right?

I think I'm going to go to court and sue John for my rightful share of my lives greatest achievement. I feel that John needs fix this and provide me with what is rightfully mine. Personally I am heartbroken as I see my life's work earning millions of dollars for others but can not reap a penny of it - being forced to be a builder to survive in my late 60's? Ouch!

Make sense?



I'm sorry but this is the most ridiculous analogy I have ever read. There is no comparison whatsoever with the analogy you just provided and what took place with the Wailers. Ever heard of intellectual property (IP)? The Wailers "were" a family when Bob was alive and were taken care of.

Most of the JA musicians were not well educated or savvy enough to sign contracts or even negotiate those contracts when they were presented by record companies. Does that make it right to "steal" their IP? Does that make it just to "steal" their life's work? Especially for Rita who was there and saw it all go down.

I will say that I do understand her viewpoint though. For her this is payback for all the sleeping around Bob did. She stood in the wings patiently and has won the "game of thrones" so to speak.

But seriously, for the sake of honor and integrity...the Marley family and Rita should make it right without the need for a court case. Fams did not "sell" his music or the IP to anyone. He was duped and I don't see how having 25 kids affects this conversation. How many kids did Bob father?

Everyone who knows the real story knows that Fams and Carlton came up with the arrangements that propelled Bob to stardom. When you hum a Marley song what do you hum? either the lyrics.....or the bass-line. You can pretty much replace all the other musicians and still have the "Wailers Sound". It's been proven many times over. See my list of Barret brothers backed tunes above.



If we are talking about $$$$$ then we are talking about business. It appears as though your business stance is that "Good things should happen to good people and bad things should happen to bad people." I love that! But unfortunately that is just not the reality of busine$$.

"The Wailers "were" a family when Bob was alive and were taken care of."
- I think this might be your fantasy of how you would have liked them all to be.

"Most of the JA musicians were not well educated or savvy enough to sign contracts or even negotiate those contracts when they were presented by record companies."
- I don't think it was about intelligence, I think it was a situation of "money now helps me now, I'll deal with the future when the future comes"

"Especially for Rita who was there and saw it all go down. I will say that I do understand her viewpoint though. For her this is payback for all the sleeping around Bob did. She stood in the wings patiently and has won the "game of thrones" so to speak."
- So you are saying that since Bob cheated on her and she decided rather then to leave him she would stay married to him while he cheats, that she as a result of that is entitled to the money. Same money that you are saying Family Man is also entitled to??? She doesn't get that money because of revenge or because or morals. She gets it because she is the legal heir to his estate. No personal or right over wrong reason at all, just simply the law.

"But seriously, for the sake of honor and integrity...the Marley family and Rita should make it right without the need for a court case. Fams did not "sell" his music or the IP to anyone. He was duped and I don't see how having 25 kids affects this conversation. How many kids did Bob father?"
- Your 1st statement is an example of what made me think of the business stance being "Good things should happen to good people and bad things should happen to bad people." I used the 25 kids line to point out that Family Man really did have a need for $ up front and wasn't set up to take the gamble of waiting out for the possibilities of big royalty paychecks.

"Everyone who knows the real story knows that Fams and Carlton came up with the arrangements that propelled Bob to stardom. When you hum a Marley song what do you hum? either the lyrics.....or the bass-line. You can pretty much replace all the other musicians and still have the "Wailers Sound". It's been proven many times over. See my list of Barret brothers backed tunes above."
- I hum bass lines and melodies. Lyrics are a distant second to what I love about reggae. If the Carlton bros were the reason for Bob's stardom, then why could they not even come close to being able to do that with anyone else? Like the Roots Radics and Sly & Robbie were able to do.

I wish that Family Man was a millionaire from his contributions in reggae music. But I do understand why he is not and I don't think it was 100% just being screwed by the label. I think his business decisions along the way also had a huge impact on his current situation.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
September 01, 2016 05:19PM
I honestly don't mean any disrespect to you but tell me something....why should I give credence to any of your replies since you've already acknowledged that you "don't know the backstory"?






[EDIT] Your statement about Rita shows me that you still don't know what "Intellectual Property" is. Rita "won" a huge court battle in 1985? granting her the Marley estate and all consequent and related earnings due to falsified statements/documents by herself and Chris Blackwell. The judge happened to take her and Chris Blackwell's side of the story and reject Fams' account of what took place. Maybe the top rate law firm Blackwell hired had something to do with that? (FYI, that's a rhetorical question). Look into the court case if you have a free moment. I'm positive it will enlighten you regarding all the assumptions you are making.






Quote
AKA
Quote
IamReggae
Quote
AKA
I built a beautiful home in San Francisco back in 1969. This house was built so unique, so solid, and with so much of my personal craftsmanship that it totally stood out from any other house in the city. There was no doubt that I was the only builder that could make something as unique as that. Nobody could ever to this day deny that it was made by me.

In 1971 I sold the house to John for $100,000. I really felt that that was a fair amount for the house and I even got paid more than the average builder because my house was totally unique. John was even able to rent out all the extra rooms in the house for inflated prices because the house was so great and everybody wanted to live there. I chose not to invest that $100,000, but instead I decided to use it to help support the 25 children that I was raising.

Now 45 years later John sold the house for $2,500,000. How is it even fair that John makes $2,400,000 + 45 years worth of rent, all from my greatest life achievement when I only got $100,000? Everybody that sees that house knows that I built it, you can tell just by looking at it. I should be entitled to at least some of that money right?

I think I'm going to go to court and sue John for my rightful share of my lives greatest achievement. I feel that John needs fix this and provide me with what is rightfully mine. Personally I am heartbroken as I see my life's work earning millions of dollars for others but can not reap a penny of it - being forced to be a builder to survive in my late 60's? Ouch!

Make sense?



I'm sorry but this is the most ridiculous analogy I have ever read. There is no comparison whatsoever with the analogy you just provided and what took place with the Wailers. Ever heard of intellectual property (IP)? The Wailers "were" a family when Bob was alive and were taken care of.

Most of the JA musicians were not well educated or savvy enough to sign contracts or even negotiate those contracts when they were presented by record companies. Does that make it right to "steal" their IP? Does that make it just to "steal" their life's work? Especially for Rita who was there and saw it all go down.

I will say that I do understand her viewpoint though. For her this is payback for all the sleeping around Bob did. She stood in the wings patiently and has won the "game of thrones" so to speak.

But seriously, for the sake of honor and integrity...the Marley family and Rita should make it right without the need for a court case. Fams did not "sell" his music or the IP to anyone. He was duped and I don't see how having 25 kids affects this conversation. How many kids did Bob father?

Everyone who knows the real story knows that Fams and Carlton came up with the arrangements that propelled Bob to stardom. When you hum a Marley song what do you hum? either the lyrics.....or the bass-line. You can pretty much replace all the other musicians and still have the "Wailers Sound". It's been proven many times over. See my list of Barret brothers backed tunes above.



If we are talking about $$$$$ then we are talking about business. It appears as though your business stance is that "Good things should happen to good people and bad things should happen to bad people." I love that! But unfortunately that is just not the reality of busine$$.

"The Wailers "were" a family when Bob was alive and were taken care of."
- I think this might be your fantasy of how you would have liked them all to be.

"Most of the JA musicians were not well educated or savvy enough to sign contracts or even negotiate those contracts when they were presented by record companies."
- I don't think it was about intelligence, I think it was a situation of "money now helps me now, I'll deal with the future when the future comes"

"Especially for Rita who was there and saw it all go down. I will say that I do understand her viewpoint though. For her this is payback for all the sleeping around Bob did. She stood in the wings patiently and has won the "game of thrones" so to speak."
- So you are saying that since Bob cheated on her and she decided rather then to leave him she would stay married to him while he cheats, that she as a result of that is entitled to the money. Same money that you are saying Family Man is also entitled to??? She doesn't get that money because of revenge or because or morals. She gets it because she is the legal heir to his estate. No personal or right over wrong reason at all, just simply the law.

"But seriously, for the sake of honor and integrity...the Marley family and Rita should make it right without the need for a court case. Fams did not "sell" his music or the IP to anyone. He was duped and I don't see how having 25 kids affects this conversation. How many kids did Bob father?"
- Your 1st statement is an example of what made me think of the business stance being "Good things should happen to good people and bad things should happen to bad people." I used the 25 kids line to point out that Family Man really did have a need for $ up front and wasn't set up to take the gamble of waiting out for the possibilities of big royalty paychecks.

"Everyone who knows the real story knows that Fams and Carlton came up with the arrangements that propelled Bob to stardom. When you hum a Marley song what do you hum? either the lyrics.....or the bass-line. You can pretty much replace all the other musicians and still have the "Wailers Sound". It's been proven many times over. See my list of Barret brothers backed tunes above."
- I hum bass lines and melodies. Lyrics are a distant second to what I love about reggae. If the Carlton bros were the reason for Bob's stardom, then why could they not even come close to being able to do that with anyone else? Like the Roots Radics and Sly & Robbie were able to do.

I wish that Family Man was a millionaire from his contributions in reggae music. But I do understand why he is not and I don't think it was 100% just being screwed by the label. I think his business decisions along the way also had a huge impact on his current situation.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2016 05:43PM by IamReggae.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
September 01, 2016 05:42PM
Here is a small excerpt from an article about the first court case. Just ponder on this for a moment...







[caribbean-beat.com]



"The music he (Fams) played such a crucial role in creating continues to be the best-selling reggae in the world — the Legend compilation album, as just one example, has been number one in the catalogue charts of Billboard magazine longer than any other album in pop music history. The songs he helped record — and in many cases mix, produce, and write — both in the early days of the Wailers and when the band was the hottest on the planet, have become international anthems.

Bob’s deal with his musicians was a simple one, clearly understood by the various players of instruments who recorded and toured with the Wailers over the years: Bob Marley took half of what the group made; the band members got the other half.

Family Man, as the senior Wailer, was the man entrusted with handling the band’s fifty per cent and distributing it fairly. But when Bob died, that all ended. And there was nothing in writing to guarantee the band members what they assumed would be their share of ongoing royalties. The money stopped rolling in, the Wailers without Marley were nowhere near the draw they had been, and in 1994 Family Man accepted an offer as settlement for past royalties."

Since then, though, Family Man says, royalty payments have dried up, while Wailers CDs have continued to sell by the million, and he’s hoping that the judges in the venerable English High Court of Justice, where he’s suing Island Records, Universal Records, and the Marley Estate, will agree he’s owed millions of dollars for his major contributions to landmark recordings like Exodus (honoured by Time magazine as the finest album of the twentieth century), Survival, Confrontation, Rastaman Vibration, Kaya, and Uprising.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2016 06:20PM by IamReggae.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
September 01, 2016 09:01PM
Quote
AKA


- I hum bass lines and melodies. Lyrics are a distant second to what I love about reggae. If the Carlton bros were the reason for Bob's stardom, then why could they not even come close to being able to do that with anyone else? Like the Roots Radics and Sly & Robbie were able to do.
.


I just noticed this part of your quote. Somehow I missed it the first time. The Barret brothers were the gateway to reggae music for so many. Their importance cannot be overstated.

They were responsible for some of the biggest Reggae hits of all time. Some of them were even covered and became international hits like "I'll take you there" by the Staple Singers (number-one on the Billboard R&B Singles chart for four weeks May 1972). That was "lifted" from the "Liquidator Riddim" with the Barret brothers on drums and bass. Have a listen.

With regards to the Roots Radics and Sly and Robbie. Neither of those had as much success writing "hits" as the Barret Bros. Please check their discography. Before they were with the Wailers they were the most successful Riddim Section in JA for about 10 years straight during the Ska and Rocksteady eras. Unfortunately their names were not etched on the record sleeves in typical JA fashion.

I posted these few high profile examples earlier which Fams produced and played on for other artists. Alpha Blondie's groundbreaking album "Jerusalem" (the whole album), Peter Tosh's seminal work "Legalize it (the whole album), Bunny Wailer's "Blackheart Man (also the whole album). I could go on and on and on but these are records that every reggae lover in the entire world are familiar with.

Also, don't forget that Fams was Robbie's mentor. He taught Robbie how to play reggae bass. The Wailer's sound has influenced so many artists the world over it's astonishing that you think they never had success with other artists.

Did you know that Chris Blackwell recruited the Barrett brothers because of their string of #1's? He thought that having the best Riddim section in JA was sure to give his new artists (the Wailers) more national success which they could not sustain before the Barret's joined Bob. There is plenty of documentation about this.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
September 01, 2016 10:56PM
Quote
IAmReggae say & AKA reply

"The Wailers "were" a family when Bob was alive and were taken care of."

- I think this might be your fantasy of how you would have liked them all to be.

Nah so brother AKA ... You weren't there and need do some discerning research. Bob had some unfortunate undercurrents (i.e.. learn of the Yabby You / Rasta clash) but Bob was most definitely not stingy in the $haring & generosity department ... at times he even had the gateman at 56 Hope Rd. passing out serious folding money to long lines of suffrahs ... historical hindsight reveal that Bob could have been wiser in his handouts - ie. most only know of the Wailers appearing at the Zimbabwe independence celebration - but prior to that, Bob's significant $ & logistic support of Mugabe during the Zimbabwe war of independence obviously didn't prove true

IMO this Bob M $debate is the superficial of it ... the deeper issue to be found in the Yabby You / Ras conflict.

Bob became the figurehead of Ras Reggae (some will say commercialized Ras Reggae) and, while certain of the reggae pioneer notables never went with the Ras mentality - i.e. Toots, Jimmy Cliff, Willi Williams, Clinton Fearon, Messenjah Ojiji ... Yabby You is the one who drew the proverbial line in the sand and called b.s. on the Ras fantasy that a terrestrial aristocracy (Selassie) was the one and only Jesus reincarnated ... Yabby teach: 'men made religion is the first sign of mental illness'

One time 3 feisty Rasta yute corner Yabby in the ghetto with aggressive argument and implied violence: "Ya nah see it Yabby You - Bob Marley fill up football stadium all round the wurld now ... Rasta gone clear! Jamaica pon top now!" And Yabby replied: "Yute ya know not wha ya a say ... wi Jamaicans are a cursed people ... our ancestors were torn off our African roots ... wi was grinded thru 400 year a slavery and now in this time the yute of tomorrow a grinded between the hypocrite churches and the hypocrite Rasta ... what hope do the yute of tomorrow have?"

Time reveal that Yabby was prescient. Amongst all the nations (who are not in the middle of declared wars) Jamaican has the 4th highest murder rate on the planet. On a small island of only 2 1/2+ million there are over 5000 missing children.

None a wi see the whole picture (1 Corinthians 13:12) and there are good amongst all this Urt's faith traditions and there are good individual Rastas (Yabby You always kept some Ras idrens)... and, regardless the inevitable human confusions that always creep in during this dispensation, there are individual good hearted Buddhist, Catholic, Jew, Indigenous, Muslim, Jain, Hindu & Sikh - so it ain't any1 claim say their way is the only way ... is about the integrity of intention



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2016 01:28AM by Peacemakeya.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
September 01, 2016 11:19PM
"If the Carlton bros were the reason for Bob's stardom, then why could they not even come close to being able to do that with anyone else?"

Um - that's just plain ill-informed trolling right there. So many things wrong with that question I don't know where to begin.

That being said, these guys should stop using the name. It's obviously just a way to sell more tickets. If they are really upstanding musicians worthy of praise, then why can't they originate a name and make some new material? Nuff reggae acts perform Wailers tunes in their own style, etc. - but aren't trying to scrape money off the Marley name! At some point you have to let go of the security blanket
AKA
Re: Wailers Go To Court
September 02, 2016 01:10AM
"I honestly don't mean any disrespect to you but tell me something....why should I give credence to any of your replies since you've already acknowledged that you "don't know the backstory"?"

You're absolutely right and I realize it isn't fair to have one side of the conversation working with facts and the other making assumptions. I can understand how that is frustrating and I appreciate your efforts. I rarely post anything here and normally won't post unless it's a topic specifically about music and never about politics or business. I just have a situation in my personal life that very much reminded me of where Fam's may have been at one time in his life. I am getting a promotion in my current job and they have offered a choice of either taking a bump in my current salary or excepting equity in the company. I honestly don't know what I am going to decide to do, but without knowing the future, I do see it as being a gamble either way. I've put a lot of thought into my situation and some of my personal reasoning has come out as assumptions of what happened to Family Man. I admit ignorance to the true facts of Family Man's situation and will find the time to read the Fam biography that you linked above. I do hope that I did bring some perspective to some opinions. I am not saying that this is what happened with Fam, but personally I've never been a fan of people that make bad decisions and then claim they are victims.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
September 02, 2016 06:33AM
I saw a billboard for a Wailers show coming up in October today. It seems like they come through once a year.. This is the first time I noticed them advertising as The "Original" Wailers instead of just "The Wailers". Ironic that this is the first time they've come through with no actual original members.
AJ
Re: Wailers Go To Court
September 02, 2016 04:14PM
Quote
rootsthroughsidewalks
I saw a billboard for a Wailers show coming up in October today. It seems like they come through once a year.. This is the first time I noticed them advertising as The "Original" Wailers instead of just "The Wailers". Ironic that this is the first time they've come through with no actual original members.

"The Original Wailers" do have one member from the BMW days......Al Anderson. Also Junior Marvin use to tour with them. So it's not the Wailers band in the lawsuit......at least not yet.

Cheers
Re: Wailers Go To Court
September 02, 2016 04:23PM
AKA, if it is a company that may grow, take the equity. If they like you in the new position, your salary will rise, but equity in the biz is harder to come by and may lead to a comfortable pile in the future.

Love that reggae!
Re: Wailers Go To Court
September 02, 2016 05:16PM
Hi AKA,


With all due respect, your current situation is nothing like Fams' situation. When someone writes a song, or produces a song and it's recorded, they automatically have what's called publishing rights (Equity so to speak). Writing or producing a song means you either played part in the creation of the lyrics or the music. These publishing rights belong to the writer/producer of that song for eternity unless you assign them to a publishing or record company for a split (something that Family Man did not do).

Remember, he never signed any documents because he could not read very well. He always assumed he was in good hands with Bob and their manager Don. So in essence he owns publishing rights to all those "million selling Wailer's hits" for eternity which entitles him to royalties...again for eternity.

In the first court case Rita challenged Fams' role as the writer and producer of those songs (as if she would really know) and fabricated stories telling the judge he was nothing more than a random musician Bob worked with who was incapable of writing songs, which we all know is absolutely not the case. The judge took Rita's side of the story as Chris Blackwell with his team of lawyers backed Rita's claims (shame on both of them) thumbs down. They basically "stole" his life's work and pocketed all future earnings from Wailer's records by discrediting his rights as a producer and co-writer with Bob.

Now go back to the excerpt I posted form the Caribbean-Beat publication and you will clearly see that Marley records continue to be the highest selling Reggae albums even to this day. Fams "settled" on past royalties. In other words he took a large chunk of money for royalties that were owed him in the past. But that is not the issue at hand.

The issue at hand is why is he not getting paid royalties NOW since the Wailers are still the best selling Reggae group to this very day? The records Fam's wrote, produced and mixed (Kaya, Rastaman Vibration, Catch a Fire, Burning, Exodus etc.) are selling millions every single year yet he does not get royalties as a player on those records nor as an arranger/producer/writer. Rita and her sons are making literally millions of dollars each year off the sweat off Fam's back and life work.That is what Astons current claims are which are justified.





P.S. I pray you make the right decision with your job. It can be nerve racking and I am sure you deserve a reward for all your hard work over the years. Good luck.




Quote
AKA
"I honestly don't mean any disrespect to you but tell me something....why should I give credence to any of your replies since you've already acknowledged that you "don't know the backstory"?"

You're absolutely right and I realize it isn't fair to have one side of the conversation working with facts and the other making assumptions. I can understand how that is frustrating and I appreciate your efforts. I rarely post anything here and normally won't post unless it's a topic specifically about music and never about politics or business. I just have a situation in my personal life that very much reminded me of where Fam's may have been at one time in his life. I am getting a promotion in my current job and they have offered a choice of either taking a bump in my current salary or excepting equity in the company. I honestly don't know what I am going to decide to do, but without knowing the future, I do see it as being a gamble either way. I've put a lot of thought into my situation and some of my personal reasoning has come out as assumptions of what happened to Family Man. I admit ignorance to the true facts of Family Man's situation and will find the time to read the Fam biography that you linked above. I do hope that I did bring some perspective to some opinions. I am not saying that this is what happened with Fam, but personally I've never been a fan of people that make bad decisions and then claim they are victims.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2016 05:28PM by IamReggae.
AKA
Re: Wailers Go To Court
September 02, 2016 10:27PM
Fair enough IamReggae. I am thankful for all the info you've produced and touched by your best wishes regarding my situation. I don't think I have anything else to add to the conversation so I'm going to try to respectfully bow out now and wanted you to know so I don't appear rude by no longer replying. I am interested in Fam's perspective and will track down that book you reference.

Dubguy - Thanks a ton for your invaluable input. I'll take your tip and head back under the troll bridge to continue watching you guys from there.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
September 02, 2016 10:48PM
You are a humble and gracious person. I wish you well with your job decision and hope that others will read this thread to understand what is really taking place between Aston and the Marley family. No matter what you or I may think about Fams as a person, the book states "A laborer is worthy of his wages". I don't think you need to be a religious person to see the value in that proverb.






Quote
AKA
Fair enough IamReggae. I am thankful for all the info you've produced and touched by your best wishes regarding my situation. I don't think I have anything else to add to the conversation so I'm going to try to respectfully bow out now and wanted you to know so I don't appear rude by no longer replying. I am interested in Fam's perspective and will track down that book you reference.

Dubguy - Thanks a ton for your invaluable input. I'll take your tip and head back under the troll bridge to continue watching you guys from there.
Re: Wailers Go To Court
September 07, 2016 08:28AM
Saw these guys here in Portland opening up for UB40 this summmer. They were OK, but not great. Just another band doing Bob Marley covers.
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