Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Standing Down for Capleton's set

Posted by Ninja 
Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 04:17PM
I have been thinking about this a lot. I will be doing something else when King Shango aka Capleton takes the stage this year. I will admit when I first heard he was coming I was excited. I rate a large number of his tunes and have for almost 20 years. As far as reggae stage shows go he boasts one of the best IMO. It wasn't until the other day when a someone I consider a good friend posted something about the one of the many messages that Capleton has stood on for many years. I had to stop, reason with myself and re examine my position. I used the logic of what if this was a man who had been bringing a message of racial division would I overlook this portion of what he was saying in order to enjoy the rest of the show? Would I consider a half baked letter clearly written by a "management type" and signed at the bottom by Lord knows who as evidence that he had altered his position with the same fire he held it will originally? Is it more important for me to enjoy myself at the expense of others? The answer to all these questions is no. Even then I thought well should I defy my own logic and just enjoy anyway? It made me think "what kind of person are you and do you want to be.. what type of friend do you want to be?" At that point it became clear to me that I would not be attending his set. Not because I wouldn't enjoy it but because I shouldn't enjoy it at the expense of many I consider to be my friends but also at the expense of those that I call family. Will I miss out? Sure, but it is a small sacrifice to be seen a a true friend of equality. This is just my thoughts and I understand if others have different thoughts. I hope everyone still enjoys the festival and just is aware like always you got choices.. this is Merica after all and everyone is free to do as they wish. I am looking forward to this year for sure. Bless
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 07:59PM
I'm sorry you feel that way Ninja. I have a ton of gay friends who think I'm a total d$ck for loving dancehall reggae and artist like Buju, Sizzla, and Capleton. If they can't respect my love and passion for these artist then I'm not going to respect their thoughts on these artist. Jamaica has a different culture and they should respect that as well. It's a two way street and I'm going to rock it during that set. Hope to see you at Anthony Bs set....same thought process though.
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 08:06PM
I hear you. I just have reached a different opinion. The way I see it is this. No one said that being racist was a part of Southern Culture. It was siImply wrong no matter where it came from. The same thing with violence against gay people. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I firmly believe that. When your opinion is that someone should have violence visited upon them then they have crossed the line IMO. I have no doubt that Capleton isn't the only artist that feels this way.. in fact I am sure he isn't. However, he is the only artist (on the bill) I have heard voicing tunes calling for the hanging of gay people. Just like I wouldn't tolerate an artist calling for the hanging of blacks or Muslims or anything else I just can't get over that. I don't put it on Dancehall as a whole and I don't have to agree with everything an artist says in order to get with them and enjoy their music. This is just so clear and in a time when people have actually been nailed to fences and killed themselves because of who they are I think it is important to make it known where you stand. Like I said, others are more than free to enjoy the set. I am sure his performance will be one of the best. It just isn't for me at this time in this place.. Anthony B will be live for sure.. as will so many of the other artist on the bill. It is FULLY LOADED!
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 08:20PM
I have multiple gay and lesbian friends that love capleton and many other controversial jamaican's music... they believe that if they deserve freedom of expression so do those artists

Respect Same Way
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 08:26PM
Well Ninja: The list of artists you requested last week is 'chock-full' of artists that "feels this way," so why the double standard? Perhaps this is something that you've 'reached a different opinion' on since last week. And where do you draw the line?

Would you 'stand down' for an artist because he fires his backup singers for coming to rehearsal in tight jeans?

Would you 'stand down' for an artist because he has umpteen children he renders no financial support for in spite of his being well off?

Would you ‘stand down’ for an artist because he’s been convicted of murder or rape?

Would you 'stand down' for an artist because you know he's going to use his 'gate take' to buy crack cocaine?

Would you 'stand down' for an artist because he advocates 'death to all black and white oppressors'?

Would you ‘stand down’ for an artist because his songs contain lyrics that are misogynistic?

Would you ‘stand down’ for an artist who held ‘the same fire’ but didn’t express it lyrically?

Would you ‘stand down’ for a church pastor who held ‘the same fire’ in his sermons?

Everyone has to draw their own 'line' and I respect you for having done so here. To my knowledge, Capleton has refrained from the subject in his lyrics for over 15 years. I don't know the man, and don't know what's in his heart. He may still hold those views but, as long as he keeps them to himself, I have no problem with his performing at this festival just like I had no problem with Yellowman despite his lyrical degradation of women in year's gone by.

If I held EVERY belief that an artist has against him or her, I'm sure I would have no friends that are reggae singers or musicians. Instead, I try to focus on that which binds us and to leave the other things behind (provided that person does likewise)...
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 08:28PM
who cares if someone is racist.. are you so sensitive that your life depends on what a white person thinks of you ?
as it is.. you can move throughout this country.. make your money, be happy... without any problems.
are you saying that if someone calls you an N or wont allow you to date their daughter, than magically your life
happiness disappears ? all because you are not fully accepted by white society ?

thats some weak sauce right there.. honestly..









Quote
Ninja
I hear you. I just have reached a different opinion. The way I see it is this. No one said that being racist was a part of Southern Culture. It was siImply wrong no matter where it came from. The same thing with violence against gay people. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I firmly believe that. When your opinion is that someone should have violence visited upon them then they have crossed the line IMO. I have no doubt that Capleton isn't the only artist that feels this way.. in fact I am sure he isn't. However, he is the only artist (on the bill) I have heard voicing tunes calling for the hanging of gay people. Just like I wouldn't tolerate an artist calling for the hanging of blacks or Muslims or anything else I just can't get over that. I don't put it on Dancehall as a whole and I don't have to agree with everything an artist says in order to get with them and enjoy their music. This is just so clear and in a time when people have actually been nailed to fences and killed themselves because of who they are I think it is important to make it known where you stand. Like I said, others are more than free to enjoy the set. I am sure his performance will be one of the best. It just isn't for me at this time in this place.. Anthony B will be live for sure.. as will so many of the other artist on the bill. It is FULLY LOADED!
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 08:38PM
BV at the same time why do you appear to care if I post something on this board? How does if affect you at all? you should examine why you care ir someone has an opinion that opposes yours.
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 08:54PM
I know this topic has be rehashed on this forum several times over the years. Ninja, can you provide examples of anti-gay songs from Capleton? If they're too offensive to post here I understand. The only reference I can think of is when he says "fire burn lesbian". But he says "Fire burn" about a lot of things! It doesn't mean he literally wants to burn everything to the ground, or physically harm people, it's more about burning out corruption, and some cultures (Jamaica) believe homosexuality is a form of corruption. I'm sure you already know this though, and I don't believe it myself. I'm more of a live and let live type of guy, and feel people can believe what they want and not be vilified for it, as long as nobody is harmed in the process (physically, not emotionally). That said, just as Capleton has a right to his beliefs, people that don't agree with him have a right to ignore him, or protest or whatever. We all have free will and that's what makes the world go 'round!
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 08:55PM
i find your perspective interesting yet conflicting in many ways. especially when it comes to this whole imaginary re-birth of the kkk and how you are scared someone may randomly harm you/yours.

all this talk of hanging people from trees, i just dont get it. it's as if everyone is trying so hard to place themselves into this "i'm a victim" box.

i live in the south,surrounded by conservatives.. confederate flags in people's yard.. bumper stickers, you name it.
never once have i had to defend myself from these people in any way.. not physcially not verbally.. none.

now, if i go to the side of town where my wife's people live, then its a totally different story.
i could stop at any gas station or local store, and there is a 50% chance i will have to knuckle up with
someone... and it's all due to people not liking what i drive.. how i possibly looked at them.. if i
didnt get out of the way quick enough.. i had a guy just a few months ago show his tool when i didnt
move from the air station quick here.. that junk is a reality.. this other stuff you guys are talking about
hanging from trees, and kidnapping.. that some make believe garbage by some people trying to be part of the victim club.

stop already..
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 09:02PM
I stand by what I said. I don't play any card of see myself as a victim. why you feel the need to respond to every post I make I don't know that is your business I suppose. I have you have a nice time at the festival. more power to you.
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 09:04PM
i was about to say the same thing.. but didnt want to bring up this subject..
if you are familair with these artists catalog you will have heard some controversial lyrics.
maybe its because one of my enjoyments is collecting and listening to mixes.. so i am exposed to many different
songs.. but for the casual listener they may not know such-n-such artist has EXPLICITLY blazed a fiyah as well.


Quote
Daniel
Well Ninja: The list of artists you requested last week is 'chock-full' of artists that "feels this way," so why the double standard?
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 09:13PM
As to Daniel.. did you read what I posted about being excited to see Capleton on the bill a week ago? Did you then read what I said about reading an objection and reasoning with myself over this? Did you then read what I said about being conflicted and coming down on the other side of the fence? If not I suggest you do.
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 09:15PM
Quote
Ninja
I stand by what I said. I don't play any card of see myself as a victim. why you feel the need to respond to every post I make I don't know that is your business I suppose. I have you have a nice time at the festival. more power to you.

my three year old no longer uses his night light.. you want me to send them your way ?maybe they'll help you sleep better at night.
ill cover all costs.. dont worry.. i mean really, that whole boogie man thing really has you sounding shook. i'm concerned.
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 11:02PM
Organizers might want to consider establishing a "safe zone" on sitespinning smiley sticking its tongue out
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 11:06PM
It is good for this topic to be revisited over and over again. Homosexuality was a prejudice I overcame at a very young age. I used to be very conflicted about the homophobic messages when I first started exploring Reggae music...
To the point where I couldn't justify listening to the genre as a whole.

I do not feel like I would be a better person without Reggae. It has enriched my life beyond what can be entered by a keyboard and I choose not to define it by the narrow view of those songs and messages.

As much as I would love to see every homophobic lyricist have a genuine epiphany and start openly speaking out against their past hate speech, I do not feel that will ever happen. So should I stop listening to Reggae? Am I a hypocrite for loving the music still?

I don't think so, but you can have your own opinion.

If I am there, I will try to attend because I absolutely love the vast majority of his work. If I hear homophobic speech, I will BOO loudly because I think it is ignorant to promote hate and violence against another and it is my duty as an equal rights loving person to put up resistance.

I have the perspective to not hold a grudge for past recordings and messages with which I disagree as I hope others will not hold a grudge for my past indiscretions. I deal in the present. The last time I saw Capleton, I heard no homophobic speech and I have a keen ear for it. It was uplifting and creative art.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2017 11:40PM by bun n cheese.
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 11:17PM
so my computer died.. being taken from this conversation and having my silence interpreted as "nothing to say" was one of the greatest pains I have faced lately.. living in the suburbs and being a lighter shade of black and all.
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 11:42PM
first of all BV.. you should reconsider you opinion that someone like myself is "scurred" of the Boogie man and worried about bad things happening to me. That is laughable. You should keep the nightlight but I thank you for the offer. I am a fan of Capleton's music. as to IYAH TROD... I do not require a "safe zone" I grew up in the 1980's when many of you were still "sucking your muddah" quite literally. If YOU A TROD I suggest you keep trodding and keep that nonsense from around me. Big Up Xacto... because I said so... and because I know the first time I asked you for more "gun tunes' you said "yeah I am not into that as much anymore" that we all trod the path and have different feelings at different points. The last time I saw Capleton I didn't hear word one of hate speech and I do think that people change through time and experience. I have no doubt that Capleton could have changed as well. If anyone reads what I wrote it is a decision for one person and just like I don't question why people will show up and support the man I would assume the same for those who do not.

Finally Daniel.. yes I suppose the questions you have posed are quite legitimate. I would say this.. if an artist had in 1997 said something like "I like to take women, throw they over the bar and take them against their will" I would probably not support them. As Nyabinghi artist.. no don't really have a problem with that. As to having a bunch of kids by a bunch of different women.. no I would support them if there music was good. I would think that many of their tunes and messages were hollow and so they would probably appeal to me a lot less. When Sizzla did the song Pump Up Her Poom Poom.. I was heartbroken.. this was way back when I saw many of these cats like figures from the Old Testament. Sermons.. yes the same way I used to listen to a lot of preachers like John Hagee... then I realized that gluttony was sin he just seemed not to have an issue with it. I wouldn't of had an issue with it either but damn, the guy wanted to bring the fire to everywhere but his waistline. As to artist who hold the same fire but don't express it lyrically no. I have no problem with people thinking what they are going to think. As artist they hold a "sway" and I pay to give them a forum. I know a lot of Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist people hold the same fire. The goal is not to have a world in which everyone thinks like me. The goal is to have a world where everyone can walk to the store or go to a show without some idiot insulting them or raising there hands to them (NO BV that is not fear that is simply stating what kind of world I want to live in). Last yes I agree no one should be held to the standard if they don't have the same feelings I do I won't support you. I think that would first not be realistic and second it would kill the concept of diversity. I would have to say I agree I haven't heard many artist burn the fire against what they view as sexual morality in recent memory. I think the last I have heard was maybe Sizzla? Having said that like I said it is a PERSONAL decision that I have made to stand in solidarity with my friends and family who choose not to be there. I don't think any less of people who do.. not at all. I just ask that others don't think less of people who choose not to support him. When I hear people say dumb sheet like "go drink your micro brew and listen to watered down reggae" to me that is some white guy who has dreads who thinks it makes him blacker to listen to music that is as far from white as you can be. I just see it as childish but I wonder if it isn't the same type of person who could be influenced to do something dumb to a gay man or lesbian because he was all full of hype off the music. Again BV this is not fear of someone coming to harm me.. I am pretty sure your Chad from Nor Cal isn't going to lay a finger on me 6'3 235.. (ding) I speak for those who don't speak for themselves or "don't want to get into it".
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 03, 2017 11:52PM
Reggaebe.. YES I agree he has the rights to his opinions for sure. I won't be protesting him or suggesting that anyone else does. He is one of the best reggae musicians to ever make reggae music IMO. As to what tunes.. you will have to give me a minute. The one I remember VERY clearly was the tune where he is talking about "String them up and hang them up alive pure batty man you know they cannot survive" or something similar to that. Yes then on Ready When Yu Ready he is speaking about a lot of things and he mentions burning out lesbians. I get what you are saying about this not being literal. I just think of it like this. IF someone said burn out blacks and multiculturalism I would think they were a racist (I wouldn't be afraid BV cause I am not soft even though I live in the burbssmiling smiley) I would just think F this guy I am not hearing this. I also know that using culture as a reason for your bigotry didn't work in the South so I am not sure why it would work in Jamaica where gay people get disrespected and beat up all the time. That doesn't have me boycotting Jamaica it just it one thing about their current cultural setting that I disagree with. Anyway... like I said above I am a Capleton fan.. I personally think I Testament could be one of my top 5 records of any genre.. it was and is brilliant.
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 04, 2017 12:17AM
So many words. If I may oversimplify how I see this.

Believing that homosexuality is wrong and promoting violence against Homosexuals are two very different things.

Expressing your freedom to be homosexual and expressing your freedom to not be OK with homosexuality are essentially the same thing.

Tolerance is a two way street.

While I am quite sure that none of these artists (still not sure why Capleton is being singled out) will ever change their belief system regarding this, I do think that some/most have matured to the point where they no longer believe that promoting violence is acceptable.

There is one artist that I will actually only play if he is featured on another artists track and that is is Bounty Killer. And it's not about lyrics. I draw the line somewhere around beating up your girlfriend with a hammer.

Positive Vibrations w/DJ Treez | Tahoe's Reggae Show | Thursday Nights 10pm | 101.5 FM KTKE | truckeetahoeradio.com
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 04, 2017 12:21AM
Ninja,

Big up Ninja... No need to throw around body stats... It's all good.. It's super bowl week here in my city.. Are you here by chance ? I know at one time you
had a sports apparel affiliation. So not sure if you still do and if that brings you to town.
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 04, 2017 12:56AM
body stats are just in sarcasm... yes it is the week of the Big game and I think it it has only been 27 years since my beloved Buffalo Bills have been a part of it all.. sad but true
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 04, 2017 01:04AM
Ninja, I'd be highly surprised if your age exceeded mine, but that is not the point and nothing to brag about either way. A man born when him born. My reference is more to the over sensitivity of ones "out deh" (west coast) to issues; the intolerance of the tolerant, or the need to make an issue out of everything. If you wanted to make this stand down for Capleton, it would have made more sense about 15 years ago. Now, it would have made much more sense to stand up for Capleton, as SNWMF has. He responded to the protests against him long ago, as evident in his sets across the USA from long time now. At this point, standing down for capleton is outdated and just feeds the fodder of bull. Of course this is just my opinion.
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 04, 2017 01:10AM
If I may oversimplify, illustrating by substituting 'homosexuality' with 'black skin' in that they are both natural born human traits. This is a fact I came to know in my youth. Those that say otherwise, have not spent any time with the homosexual population and wouldn't understand.

"Believing that black skin is wrong and promoting violence against black skinned people are two very different things."

See, black skin is merely a skin color. It is not "wrong". The very idea that homosexuality is something that can be "wrong" is flawed.

"Tolerance is a two way street."

No doubt, I tolerate my neighbors unkept yard and they tolerate my loud reggae music. We always waive with a smile. One's sexual orientation is not something to be "tolerated" just as black skin is not something to be "tolerated". It simply is.

Now, some old books say it is wrong, when slavery was right, and women as property was right. We don't hold those beliefs anymore because we have come to realize that human rights are inalienable for all.
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 04, 2017 01:32AM
To me it's more about respecting or at least tolerating other's belief systems even if we do not agree with them. This is going to be more important now than ever in our current political environment.

Just switching out one word doesn't really do it justice. Maybe I am going out on as limb, but I think I agree with this statement -

"Believing that people with black skin are inferior and promoting violence against black skinned people are two very different things."

Respect & Love

Positive Vibrations w/DJ Treez | Tahoe's Reggae Show | Thursday Nights 10pm | 101.5 FM KTKE | truckeetahoeradio.com
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 04, 2017 05:01AM
I think bun and cheese stated it eloquently. There is a big difference between someone who is homosexual and someone who doesn't 'believe in it'.They are not equivalents. If your belief system denies my right to existence, i have no responsibility to tolerate your belief system. The basis of the people who are 'against' homosexuality is this denial that it is the way they are, not something they choose to be. All gods children, right?

Love that reggae!
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 04, 2017 05:27AM
treez, you want to see what tolerance looks like...mine isn't a two way street, it's a four lane highway.

this shows less than half of my reggae room, several years ago; it's even fuller now, with music from reggae artists with all kinds of beliefs and opinions, some of which don't favor me. overflow is in the basement.



m.

* [www.kboo.fm]
* [www.shocksofsheba.podomatic.com]
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 04, 2017 06:07AM
Big ups Ninja. I admire you for standing firm in your convictions!
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 04, 2017 07:14PM
I see tolerance as a one way street. Someone else's intolerance does not change my belief system. It is single duplex. It is mono.

Adjusting ones belief system is a task for experience and kindness.

Relationships are full duplex, they are stereo. When a relationship is out of phase then tolerance is out of sync and it sounds bad.

When the relationship is in phase then you have beautiful music.
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 04, 2017 07:22PM
"Adjusting ones belief system is a task for experience and kindness."

You know I love to talk but this speaks for itself.
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 09, 2017 12:57AM
Respect brother

~Highest Heightz Every Time~
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 09, 2017 02:06AM
ites bun.

nice post.

and of course, i posted that image to demonstrate that MY belief system doesn't change. that is me continuing to support and ultimately share this music.

if it was otherwise, that room would be empty.

single mono...i love that.

m.

* [www.kboo.fm]
* [www.shocksofsheba.podomatic.com]
Re: Standing Down for Capleton's set
February 09, 2017 05:24AM
its all love... AND I just heard he has a feud going with my Great Great Uncle the Front Teeth Gold Teeth IF ME EAR NAH WORK MI TEETH pull a gun article don NINJA MAN MAN MAN
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login