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so...

Posted by jb welda 
jb welda
so...
May 24, 2004 04:28PM
how many people here started checking reggae after that "jerry" guy died?

just wondering because it seems like a large contingent here are or were "deadheads" before they became "rastaheads".

one love
jah bill
confuse-us
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 04:35PM

aka "deadlocks" or "drippies"
jb welda
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 04:36PM
now now solid...i was just wondering, not casting aspersions.

one love
jah bill
confuse-us
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 04:48PM

sorry
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 04:53PM
Why would you tied the expiration of Jerry to the ushering in of hippies to reggae music? I dont see the connection....
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 05:05PM
As i see it over here in cali, its a flurush of disinformation and lack or truth
leading to all these questions.
(sometime I wish I was a couple years older.)
Peace & Love



Happy Trails
confuse-us
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 05:08PM

yeah it's a "flurush"

"Happy Trials" to you too!
Zana
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 05:31PM
Question for you: I've never listened to the G.D. and only, within the past 3 years, have discovered Reggae music. I was the typical person who had heard of Bob but not much else. I went to a reggae festival and was "awakened". Ever since, I've educated myself what reggae music is, who the artists are, and who Rastafari was. Very enlightning.
Well, I don't have dreads and I look darn clean cut too, but I love reggae music and what it stands for. I'm familiar with it's history and significance. I don't try to fake a Jamaican accent either.
Does that make me an impasta?
iriegyal
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 05:40PM
too young to be a dead head but i was dragged to many of their concerts by my parents.
jb welda
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 05:41PM
nice job of connecting the dots, zana.

b&c: because i observe certain things and wonder if my observations are even sort of valid. hope that helps.

one love
jah bill
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 05:50PM
jahbill - i kinda notice the same thing. one reason is the vibes at most reggae (that i have been to) is similar to dead shows (mellow, peaceful, one world etc). another is the music at both reggae and dead is very conducive to, ahem, how shall i say it ...partaking?
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 05:58PM
I never met a deadhead until I went to ROTR in 1991.

There was a ton of them there long before Jerry died
but the ones I got to know stopped going there in the
2000's for whatever reason...some of them still run around
to concerts following the String Cheese Incident.
flip
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 06:30PM
been to a few dead shows but was just never really into The Greatful Dead. Didn't not like them but just wasn't that into it. not that the shows werent fun..................too young though to have caught the dead at the hieght of their powers

heard some reggae on the radio when i was somewhere between 12-15. picked up some Marley albums and that was it. been going deeper ever since.
Zana
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 06:32PM
Last year (my 1st) I went with a group who I found out after I got there didn't even LIKE reggae music!!?? What?! Why even go then, I asked? They liked to party. They spent almost the entire festival at their campsite. I think that there are a lot of people that go to the festival not to hear the music, but for other reasons.
It always cracks me up when the gansta looking people show up, the girls wearing high heals and full makeup. But hey, they might like reggae more than some of the people there sporting a full head of dreads. You just never know.
jb welda
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 06:44PM
i am reminded of a scene at roger steffens house: im there for a few days and this other cat is coming over. hes got dreads to his knees and knows every sneeze and cough bob marley ever made. he knows all about peter tosh and bunny wailers. even has a marley song that rojah has never heard.

so i start talking to him about reggae. doesnt like other reggae he says, just likes bob marley (etc) reggae. i ask about alton ellis (one of rojahs favorite singers): oh hes ok but boring. i ask about linval thompson: who? i ask about burning spear: oh yeah he worked with the dead, right? i ask him about going to see live reggae shows: naw, theyre boring. that was a short conversation. he started talking about the grateful dead and i started staring off into space and thinking it was time to go service my recording equipment.

its a funny world. thats why i asked.

one love
jah bill
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 08:05PM
jah bill. I understand what you mean about deadheads and reggae. I've run in to too many that are just into bob marley and/or the image. However, I used to go to dead shows and still enjoy their music quite abit. But I got into reggae before Jerry died and my interest in reggae came from a different direction. It is something completely apart from my enjoyment of the grateful dead. I can't say that this is typical or even common among deadheads, but my enjoyment of the grateful does not necessarily mean that I jumped on the dreadhead bandwagon. But you're right, the scene you described with roger is all too familiar.
-thisriver
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 08:09PM
Someone knew a Bob tune that Roger didn't! I haven't seen Roger do his Marley presentation in a long time...it would be cool to get him to one of the festivals again.

When I began listening to music (a lot), the disco era was in full swing. I used to take my parents records into my room and check them out. They listened to a hodge podge of 50s-60s stuff...after a while, certain records would end up spending more and more time in my room: Dad's surf music, Jefferson Airplane and the Gratefull Dead. The Dead were really big with the counter-culture scene in the Santa Cruz Mountains (in the day they played at the Lompico and Zayante clubs).

Then I was turned on to Black Sabbath...I started playing guitar and singing in metal bands during high school. I had totally forgotton bout the Dead. But as the years went by I was listening to more and more music, and trying to incorporate things into my music. Classical, Jazz, New Age, and even Reggae. Then a roomate(thanks Joe!) who was really into the Dead moved in. He would listen to Deadhead show every Sunday, where they played live bootleg stuff...and Joe, after a few bars, would tell me what year/venue the song was performed at. I was totally amazed, until I learned they rarely, if ever, play the same song the same way twice. At this time I had a few Bob Marley and Jimmy Cliff albums...it was Joe who turned my on to Toots and the Maytals, and Agustus Pablo, and got my "true-love" for reggae going...

Where the hell am I going with this...? (LOL - too many tokes in da morning!)

Anyway - I thing there is a connection to all music that is performed well. With Reggae, the bass and drum are lead instuments - the Dead and the Dead "family" of bands (Rusted Root, Allman Brothers, Mudfrog, etc.) are more guitar orientred, but both styles rely on the band playing off of each other- jamming on the groove. Deadheads and reggae fans (is there a term? Skankhead? - Dick Dale fans are "Dickheads" - hehe) both have a large percentage of vegitarian, tam and hemp wearing, ganja toking, concerned citizens who generally are unhappy with the shitstem. I think that gives you a lot of common ground...
Re: so...
May 24, 2004 09:46PM
even if i was a deadhead, I could not imagine myself at Roger Steffan's house and NOT wanting to just pore over his collection reggae memorabillia and records and listen to him talk about reggae music.
I mean, arguably, doesn't he own one of the largest collection of Reggae related music, art, Etc?
and for the record, I mean no offense to those who love the Grateful Dead, It's just that I guess I don't get it. Phish too. Again, No disrepect intended.

Michael
Re: so...
May 25, 2004 12:03AM
Greetings JB
Yes your assumption is correct, and sort of,
the few of us that go back before 1982 on the west coast (remember we start the country into everything) would receive reggae only if we searched it out, (no advertising on radio or print). Then the Reggae Festivals came in the early and mid 80's which were started by and attended by people who attended Greatful Dead shows so the similarites are very noticable and if you throw in Rainbow Gatherings that had reggae bands in the mid 70's it's know wonder thats why alot of festivals are still run today.
Since jerry died the Jamgrass scene has taken a hold and most of the Deadheads follow this scene ie, String Cheese Incident, Widespread Panic, Phish, Leftover Salmon,The Dead, RatDog and the rest.
I see very little crossover 10-20% attending both types of shows.
not to many Krazzy people like me I guess?
But you know bill
"I think it's easy to dance to and it has a good beat, i'll give it, like a 100"
One Love
Al

jb welda
Re: so...
May 25, 2004 12:42AM
thanks al...

i was out of the country from about 78 - 82 and then off and on during the next three or so years so maybe i missed that. but i know that prior to my leaving, i didnt really see people i thought were "deadheads" at reggae shows...mostly they were attended by dangerous looking black people (but friendly in most cases...though i remember having a gun waved at me once in a show in miami), possibly of carribean extraction, and a few "outsiders" like me. this was in san francisco area and also down in southern california, but also in jamaica and florida. it seemed reggae shows in the bay area were not well attended...most were not sold out and most were in small places like this church in oakland. when i returned to the country i didnt notice what i would call "deadheads" but certainly a larger contingent of what i guess could be called "hippies" for lack of a better word, but they were rarely wearing GD t shirts or any other outward identifying clothing. it was only in the mid 90s that i really started noticing a sizeable contingent in tie dye at shows; more and more people started showing up at shows, and coincidentially, thats also when i started attending fewer and fewer shows for a few years. thats really the impetus for my question...

i was also not usually one to dance to reggae and i attribute that trait (dancing) to a largely GD oriented audience who, it seems, will "dance" to pretty much anything. i typically rate reggae music by vibe, content etc before i rate it as a "danceable" music.

i also do not agree that "remember we start the country into everything"...i think things are popular in england first, then a few years later, in new york, then a few years later in san francisco, then a few years later in the rest of the country (that includes sacramento, a mere 100 miles geographically from the bay area; but but that might as well be a million miles away culturally).

dont construe anything i say as a put down...i dont mean it that way, its just observations of the "scene" from over 30 years.

one love
jah bill
Re: so...
May 25, 2004 04:15AM
Hey JB
Yea your right Sac is close to mayberry RFD to this day
and England does start alot of things but some things need to stay in England like Uncle Joe's Miint Balls,
I have seen you dance and your not that bad ___------- typing error
yea not till the mid 80's did the venues pick up and promoters started making bank.. or at least broke even..
Peace
Al

sisterlil
Re: so...
May 25, 2004 11:57AM
Yes, started out witht he GD when I was 13, and all through high school. Started going to a fest. in Marysville called Gathering of the Vibes.. And I was hook on Reggae.. But I was dead head many years again..
Blessed,
SisterLil
Re: so...
May 25, 2004 03:23PM
Although I was introduced to the Dead (Workingmans) and Reggae (Tosh, Mama Africa) around the same time I was initially drawn to the Dead because of "shakedown street" or the "zone" that was outside of each show. How many people made it to the parking lot and never in? Funny part is my first Dead Show was @ Frogtown. After "getting in" a couple of times the "vibe" inside, not necessarily the music, hooked me. Reggae is similar in the way that I love the music (beats and Rythm), the concious natural people and love the tie in of the herb but when it comes to the deep religous message it gets kind of blurry for me. I think the festival atmosphere of families camping, natural foods and living including the open use of herb is what attracted many people to the reggae scene, IMO most people. I agree that "trends", like pop rock (beatles) and punk rock (pistols) do seem to start in the UK and work their way to the states, but the "Hippy, Pot Growing, Deadhead" lifestyle definately originates from here in norcal, for the good or bad. As far as "trends" taking the longest to get to Northern California, this makes sense to me since most the people/families I know in norcal, outside of the metro areas of SF and Sac, at one time came here to escape the scene. Not that it worked, anyways just wanted to pipe in..

Onelove
norcaldude
Re: so...
May 25, 2004 07:45PM
Blues began in U.S. - Leadbelly and Robert Johnson
Rock soon followed - Check Berry / Elvis
Acid rock next - Jefferson Airplane, Hendrix - in fact, the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper was an attempt to simulate Pet Sounds by the Beach Boys
Glam rock - Alice Cooper was doing it before Bowie
Punk Rock also came from the States - New York Dolls (Malcolm McLaren's "project" b4 the Pistols) / Ramones
New Wave followed, from the same NY scene (CBGBs)
Disco too (although ABBA played a big part)

Ok - Sabbath and Zep deserve most of the credit for creating heavy metal, but even then there was Iron Butterfly and Blue Cheer that were heading in a similar direction.

So - how do these trends all originate on the other side of the pond? I think if you look closer, you might agree that the big scene explosions over there are actually reinventions of Americana. Not always of course, but often enough...

Irations
Re: so...
May 25, 2004 08:36PM
burning spear seemz to like dat jerry guy pretty well. nuff influence in the solo garcia band from roots reggae but anywayz grateful dreadz iz a whole nother topic. crazy fingerz livez & H.I.M. nah dead. so anywayz with the vibez on dis thread i* leave sum pozitive+inspiration from a Melody Makers chune from 93'.

joy & blues
here we are in this ocean
between life & death & truth & lie
between rich & poor & sick & cure
between joy & blues

here we are in this ocean
between light a day & dark a nite
between nature & destruction
between joy & blues(joy & blues)

choose well & make sure you dont lose
do what you gotta do
'cause if it's money you put down
it's only money you could lose
choose well & make sure you dont lose
pick your choice - choose well
'cause when your life is on the line
it's only life you could lose
alright

we have the potion
to clear all evil notion
putting these words in motion
i* refuse to give joy to blues
tell me why should we live between
joy & blues

(chorus)
-solo

here we are in the big blue sea
between faith & trust & hypocrisy
between wants & needs,between
joy & blues
here we are in this ocean
between fantasy & destiney,between
quality & quantity
between joy & blues,between joy & blues
(repeat)

choose well & make sure you dont lose
do what you gotta do
'cause if a money you put down
it's only money you could lose
just choose well & make sure you dont lose
pick your choice - choose well
when your life is on the line,your life is on the line
your life is on the line,only life you can lose
choose well choose well choose well make sure you dont lose
(repeat)

-RASpects+
jb welda
Re: so...
May 25, 2004 09:32PM
dubguy:

i would guess you were born in the 70s or 80s.

that bit about the beatles "simulating" pet sounds has me rolling on the floor.

and robert johnson plus leadbelly combined didnt sell more records before the british "blues revival" than the smallest selling john mayall album...and probably would have dropped off the edge of the earth if it werent for the interest generated (in england first) by said revival.

that story about the ramones and new york dolls is also fantasy...those guys wouldnt have gotten anywhere without the stir the sex pistols created and the whole uk punk rock scene (mostly being sold in macys over here).

i will concede the rock and roll and acid rock categories but the latter especially was overall very lame and hardly worth mentioning imo if youre speaking of musicianship. even the "acid rock" category evolved out of what the beatles, especially, were doing; witness: tomorrow never knows and entire revolver album for that matter.

"new wave" was corporate punk rock 5 years after the inception.

iron butterfly and/or blue cheer shouldnt be mentioned in the same sentence as led zepplin (much as i loathe them)...they simply werent in the same league and i would guess you never witnessed either (i did, iron butt opened for the who at memorial auditorium and blue cheer played around here all the time...sound factory on alhambra blvd for one place). if youre going to try to pinpoint "heavy (cough cough) metal", talk about zepplin and deep purple; blue cheer was just banging around and iron butterfly were strictly for laughs.

i do think i can agree though with your statement that the "next big things" over in england are often retreads of stuff in the usa...but my point is that the stuff in the usa never went anywhere until it was "discovered" in the uk and then re-marketed to the usa.

and sacramento (and iowa) are at the end of a long chain of events typically.

other than that, i agree completely!

one love
jah bill
Re: so...
May 25, 2004 09:48PM
Sisterlil,
Gathering of the Vibes was my first Fest too, I was 16 years old. I started going when it was really small at a place called Gold Rush Ranch, then the next year it moved to Marysville and was quite a bit larger, did you ever make it to Gold Rush Ranch?
To answer your question JB, I got into the Jam Band Scence and the Reggae scene at about the same time, when I was 14 and 15 years old.
Loved the musical talent of the jam bands and the spiritual message of reggae. Kept up with both until I really jumped head first into reggae music and didn't have to much time for any other music. So I guess the whole dead music scence just slowly faded out of my life.
I was never a heavy part of that "lifestyle" though, I really think that although hippies and rastas share some common beliefs that they don't cross over too well. I mean I could see a hippie grow into being rasta, but not so easily vice versa, seen, anyone have any thought (or hopefully life experiences on this one?)
ForwardZion.........
sisterlil
Re: so...
May 25, 2004 11:53PM
Hi Forwardzion,
No I never made it to Gold Rush Ranch. Only to Marysville. And I was about 16 or 17 at the time. Right.
Blessed,
Sisterlil
Re: so...
May 26, 2004 01:50AM
I was born in 66 and was performing in bands in the 80s.

Paul McCartney has stated numerous times that Brian Wilson was his favorite composer, and the following is a quote from Paul regarding Pet Sounds: "I played it to John so much it would be difficult for him to escape the influence, it was the record of the time."

>> robert johnson plus leadbelly combined didnt sell more records before the british "blues revival" than the smallest selling john mayall album...
Well sure - but they are both almost as old as the phonograph, and records weren't distributed like they were when John Mayal came around. There was a thriving blues scene around them though...

And the Sex Pistols? Yeah - they made quite a stir, but they only made one record in a two year career.

just throwing out different perspectives Jah Bill - I still want to buy you a beer my friend! (Can't wait!)
Re: so...
May 26, 2004 04:26AM
How did this thread go from the graetfu Dead to the Sex Pistols?

I sey: VANILLA fUDGE
flip
Re: so...
May 26, 2004 05:30AM
if i could interupt for one second........

something about the greatful dead and dancing at reggae shows...i never dance. just not a dancer. anyway. i went to a few dead shows. never danced. only at reggae shows. lee perry said that dancing to reggae was like walking in glue. i'll be walking in glue all weekend.....
jb welda
Re: so...
May 26, 2004 06:03AM
well, i respect what you say, dubguy, and still sort of respect paul mccartney, but i never believed that particular influence too much, and think he was being diplomatic or something, but regardless, if hes on record as saying that, then who am i to argue.

the sex pistols/malcolm mclaren were all about singles anyway, the album was essentially a collection of them. its true they self destructed quick, but that pretty much fit. the great rock and roll swindle, you know.

and dont worry about that beer, i cant wait either.

one love
jah bill
catchafire
Re: so...
May 26, 2004 06:31AM
Music is universal.........Just catch a good vibe.

"MUSIC IS THE FOOD OF LOVE......PLAY ON!"
Re: so...
May 28, 2004 03:53PM
i grew up to earth,wind and fire and all the 70s music, my dad had the fatest collection of records and 8-tracks,all were original songs that everyone is bitin on...as a teenager i listend to rap and r&b, but then it got WHACK!!!never then attempted to buy any more, THEN i discovered dub...ive listened to bob marely and third world records from my dad and thought they were cool..one day i was listening to KDVS in Davis and heard some heavy basslines and was really into it...so i expolred more, now from 88 to present ive been a ragga head...OH and by the way I NEVER liked or followed the dead, i used to think they stink all the time. but i dont htink that anymore..i do and have had a head of locks,grew them for a bit when i was younger not knowin my reason why..then cut them for many reasons...second time i understand my reasons...its not for JAH all the time, more to show my love for things that GROW to heal us, that is being locked down by UMMMM(that crack head BUSH)...ive done the reggae tour since 92 and have got to say..it wasnt this infested with converted dead heads back then and then all of the sudden you see more and more....RAVERS,FRAT PARTIERS(who probably dont know half the lineup but are their to party)MORE TRAVELING DEADHEADS...what happend to the all night drum circles, now its all night techno?

just speakin my head
bless,
mystic 1
kristina
Re: so...
June 02, 2004 06:54PM
who @#$%& cares who is into the music? do you own reggae music JB? or just one of those og guys who can't stand variety in the scene? I dislike the grateful dead- went to some shows, but always into the reggae before I even heard of grateful dead- and got made fun of by deadheads for going to reggae shows instead of GD...thanks to growing up inner city with cultural people instead of hippies. But seriousley- who cares!...and for the gal who talks about gangsta looking people and women with makeup & heels- Bring it on, I hope more show up- my kind of people, and i have dreads and sight rastafari. Personally, i'd rather hang with these people than hippies but what can you do? like i said- who @#$%& cares? GET A LIFE.
Re: so...
June 02, 2004 06:57PM
What she said.
jb welda
Re: so...
June 02, 2004 07:26PM
yeah what she said.

wait, was there any substance in that? sounds like someone else should consider the get a life thing.

>do you own reggae music JB?

who me? naw i dont listen to that stuff.

one love
jah bill
flip
Re: so...
June 02, 2004 07:51PM
so Kristina....

what are you listening to thee days.......
Re: so...
June 02, 2004 07:59PM
I listen to all kinds of music and had love for reggae before I ever saw the Dead live. I think it's great all music gets represented at SNWMF, I thought Mickey Hart was fantastic with Mystery Box in 2000 and to hear some of those songs again was very satisfying. One thing I can see killed the Dead were the evil fans who came in only to party and make trash piles. Having caught the Dead for the first time in 1987, I can see how longtime fans were dismayed by the lack of concern for issues like these, but I feel very fortunate to have seen them a few more times before Jerry's passing. I thought last year Peter Rowan was fantastic and I wouldn't mind seeing him grace a SNWMF again next year, but if you never heard of him before, nor OLD AND IN THE WAY, well, hey you got a whole great new thing to listen to... I'd love to see Merl Saunders at SNWMF
What I do have a problem with is people who say "RULES ARE MEANT TO BE BROKEN" and show up and simply cause trouble. I think to classify anyone catagory of people is kind of racist, there are many fans of all kinds of music who behave like complete meatheads, like those folkz who showed up at Reggae on the River and played non reggae music blasting the whole time, please leave the Fleetwood Mac tapes at home.....
Reggae has always been about respect, so lets show some respect this SNWMF
NO BAD VIBES
flip
Re: so...
June 02, 2004 08:05PM
good points Jim........but there is no way I am leaving my Fleetwood Mac tapes at home.
Re: so...
June 02, 2004 08:09PM
Im leaving everything at home but TranceMission and The belovid "Blank CD"
That my neighbors gave me, at the very first festival i attended in 2000.. That CD Kicks!!!

Peace



Happy Trails
Re: so...
June 02, 2004 09:04PM
Ok Flip,

You win, go ahead and bring em' I got fat wax ear plugs for this festival, so I won't be hearing anything when I go to bed, though I have to say that I will be listening to hopefully hearing Capt' Bubbles mix from his camp area....his mix made the Beatles Revolution #9 seem not wierd at all. SNWMF always brings such vital music....... here is one artist I'd like to see at SNWMF 05, Shuggy Milligan, a Scottish Reggae Bagpiper.....you have not heard reggae until you've heard it over the pipes.....
Re: so...
June 02, 2004 09:11PM
Jah Bill,


can you describe the marley song you spoke of......

there are a couple of songs listed in the Revised Catch a Fire Book by Timothy White under the unreleased section.....not the Mother B reel 1 stuff, but I know there is so much stuff out there still.....

Last time I spoke with Roger he said the Whole ARKHIVE is moving to Jamaica, which I have mixed blessings about, I am glad that it will be used by Jamaican's to help further the study and interest in Reggae and Jamaican Music, but I am sad to see it leave LA and having it in close proximity to me.

Seems like the net now is hot with a lot of hard to find reggae gems, like the two non-wailers dub albums Chalawa Exodus and Uprising in Dub.

When will we get some new official released Marley goodies? I'd love to see the Dennis Thompson Marley mixes out or just a B-side compilation
jb welda
Re: so...
June 02, 2004 10:08PM
jim im afraid that marley thing went in one ear and out the other. the very fact that rojah hadnt ever heard of it, or heard it, was just plain amazing. i think he (rojah) is the source for what you refer to as "mother b" stuff as well as much of anything "new" from the original marley.

personally i never saw any merit in those chalawa releases but maybe im in the minority there.

there have been a couple interesting articles on the moving of the archive to ja...heres a link to one:

[www.smh.com.au]

send me an email if youre interested in dennis thompson marley mixes etc. the very same guy i was referring to up above blessed me with a minor gold mine of such things and i am eternally thankful, despite other misgivings...the guy was a cool brother, he just had kind of strange tastes if you ask me. (im not referring to ras rojah in this paragraph, just to be clear).

one love
jah bill
PM dude
Re: so...
June 03, 2004 03:13AM
Seems to me the connection is clear: All dressed up, no where to go. "I got this really hip bus I worked my whole life preparing for the pigrimage to , uh...where are the Dead playing this weekend? THen DAMN! Jerry went and left us for another plane of existance......hmmm.....I wonder where the party is? HEY There is one over there! Looky...A nice bunch of like minded folks! They like to party, they are concious! They grow great herb! THey walk softly on mother earth! They will even buy these burritos I just heated up on my exaust manifold.....I bet I could make a fortune fixing that hair, though....." Hence, the Deadlocks or Drippies, or whatever you want to call yourselves. I call ya'll.....people! And a nice bunch ya'll are too! Much more fun than going to a Wall-A-Dog-Doo-Za! See ya'll there. Let's party.....
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