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Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel

Posted by Jack Johnson 
Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
January 31, 2006 06:41PM
Hail Penny Reel! hope you're well these days me old china...just picked up an LP cover (not vinyl to go with it unfortunately): "OUTER NATIONAL RIDDIM" Roots Radics, Sly and Robbie, Scientist (Channel One / Burning Music) and one of the tracks is called "Tribute to Penny Reel"! This must surely be your good self (being a UK press especially) anyway, you can have it for your memorobilia collection if ya like, i will drop it round. Did you know about this at the time? (yu probly have it...)
The man
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
January 31, 2006 06:47PM
Hi Jack, thanks for that. I'm at home now and as you live just around the corner from me - just three minutes away - I'd like to see you. I'm feeling a bit isolated at present. I know the LP of course, boring and typical dubs, but the sleeve would be nice. Oh and I'd like an introduction with that lickle black and white animal you mention on B&F.

I've not been clubbing for nearly two weeks nd would like to come on Saturday. However, I'm skint as usual so don't know if I'll be along. I've got a mate coming round to pay me some dosh for tapiung off my record collection, so may make Tightn Up.

Peace and love
Reel
The man
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
January 31, 2006 06:54PM
Mr Johnson, are you the 247 number that just rung and doesn't receive incoming calls? If so, ring back as I never made the phone in time.

Reel
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
January 31, 2006 07:02PM
Nice one reel, good to hear from you man...i won't be at home this eve but we should meet up for a session very very soon!!!...i'm afraid the little furry fella is not my friend anymore (i think he has been working for the other side all along!) Tighten up is free though, and i for one will shout you a pint and a nice fur stick! be good to see you there..I will try and pop round tomorrow and say hello! some other nice tune titles on this cover: "tribute to moa ambassa" "strictly rodigan style" "tribute to king shaka" "Straight to Thatchers head" they don't name em like that anymore!
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 01, 2006 12:37AM
ahhhhhh, another successful connection, courtesy of the the snwmf loveline.
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 01, 2006 11:41AM
hmmm...we already know each other mr dirt....for a long time. Nothing to do with web world!
Josh
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 01, 2006 12:06PM
You make your mate pay to tape your records????
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 01, 2006 04:41PM
Yeah, I'm sure the artists love it when someone reproduces the music and gets paid for it.

One love
eric v
dougie conscious
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 01, 2006 08:03PM
nice 1 eric
Your name
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 01, 2006 09:33PM
Hey, maybe Mr. Reel's time is worth something..... I'm sure taping in reel time is time consuming. And maybe his mate offered that, you sanctimonious trustafarian choadsmokers....
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 01, 2006 09:41PM
I'm sure the artists don't give even half a shite, eric.

jb welda
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 01, 2006 11:03PM
maybe they dont but i personally find it fairly reprehensible.

its a fine line when duplicating someones artistic output. i can go with it if the material is out of print and either no one is profiting from it or somehow the profits are going to the artist, but to charge someone to record from your record collection?

i find that preposterous to even ask for such a thing. maybe im alone in this but i dont think so. and it doesnt matter if the persons time is being taken up by it. nowhere on the records does it say youre permitted to make money from unauthorized duplication of the material, no matter if your time is involved or not. there is zero "artistic merit" in letting someone copy from your record collection hence you should not be profiting even one iota from it, much less soliciting such a thing.

ask your buddy mikey dread what he thinks of such things there, chimino. "im sure" he will give you an earful over it.

one love
jah bill
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 01, 2006 11:08PM
What's the difference between charing someone a small fee for a recording or MP3 duplication, and buying a used copy of CD or vinyl at Amoeba or on EBay? Either way, noone profits but the person who owns the hard copy...

Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 01, 2006 11:10PM
Last night, I found my old Capital Letters album burried somewhere in between my Pam Hall and Prince Hammer lps. I was going to hire someone to go through all of my records and CDs and to (re)sort them alphabetically. But now I know that your the right man for the job JB cause I know you wouldn't want any money for your time..... P.S. - moving next month. Will you help me there too???? :-)
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 01, 2006 11:29PM
And it was "Headline News" LP, of course.
jb welda
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 01, 2006 11:59PM
no daniel, sorry, that is the one variable you left out of your equation: the ability to say no. you are perfectly able to sort your LPs yourself so i invite you to do so.

oh on the moving bit, perhaps youve seen the bumper sticker on the back of my pickup truck:

"NO I will not help you move"

besides, sorting your records or helping you move for free would not affect anyone else nor break any implicit or explicit contract between parties (like recording copywrited music esp for profit would).

and getting back to the point, i often tell people i havent got the time to record stuff for them but if they want to come over and do it themselves they are more than welcome to. but...i dont ask for any money or even dream of such a thing. personally i think of it like this: those artists never got squat beyond the money for dinner for their work; why should *i* get anything for it?

and im not quite sure how to respond to chiminos analogy to buying used material except that there is an implied license to sell a material good in the process of buying and selling; but there is no license (in fact just the opposite) to reproduce the item, and i would add its even worse if there is money involved. thats what that copyright statement on all (modern) music media means.

but i think you know all that daniel and are just pulling my chain.

one love
jah bill
jb welda
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 02, 2006 12:00AM
ps: if youre moving daniel, i would probably be willing to help, in exchange for dinner. and a beer.

one love
jah bill
Josh
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 03, 2006 08:06PM
Still no answer from the MAN?
jb welda
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 03, 2006 08:24PM
well josh if i could hazard a guess, he probably knows hes on the wrong side of this argument especially given his oft stated prejudice against anyone not directly connected to making or presenting the music making money off reggae.

and let me add that i would feel a whole lot different if he (or anyone) said: i let someone record my records and charged them 100$. then i sent 20 of those dollars to the artist whose records were recorded.

it might not sound like much but i bet a lot of artists in yard would like to get an envelope with a crisp 20 in it, and that would be far more than they probably see from any producer they had a deal with when they did the actual recording.

note this is *only* for the recording part...if the recordings were then released the recorder would be liable for royalties etc.

but it would make it much more legit if some effort was made to recompense the original artist in a scenerio like the above. you make money...pass on a reasonable percentage to the source. sounds fair to me. utopian maybe, but fair. and of course begs the question "how does one get the money to someone when you dont know how to contact them" but people like reel often have ways of finding addresses, he knows nuff people.

one love
jah bill
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 03, 2006 09:01PM

Why do I want to puke?

jb, you're 100% on the money on this one.
The man
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 04, 2006 04:43AM
Well Bill, look what you've done - brought Bob Harding, MD of Blood & Fire, on here wishing to spew.

I've spent more than 40 years collecting records and now have a substantial collection of music. This acquaintance of mine offered me some money to make tapes for him of certain items he does not have and I agreed. He comes to my house, has installed a machine for taping, and I select items I think he would like. He spends around four hours a week taping and pays me mostly for my time. I've spent many thousands of pounds buying my music and am not willing to let it off to a casual acquaintance for free when times are so hard. I brew him cups of coffee and tea (well sugared) and he's even had lunch around by me on several occasions. Sometimes he visits for a chat and to listen to tunes. I don't charge him much for the tapes...and he insists on paying! I think he then sells on the music to other collectors.

I don't see myself as a charitable organisation but I can be generous. In return for the Jimmy Smith CD you sent me, I sent you a Michael Rose single, four CDs of Bunny Lee material and a Slim Smith double CD featuring some of his greatest recordings. Aka Richie came round the other night and I gave him freely about half a dozen tapes of reggae music, a four CD John Holt collection I had a double of and several CDrs I had no use for. I'll gladly give CDs away and have given literally dozens to people over the past few years. Last year, Ringo put that Wailers 'Lemon Tree' on ebay for me and it raised £690. I never sent any of this money to Rita Marley in Ghana or Bunny in the hills. Instead, I was able to buy some new clothes, take my wife to Cornwall for a few days and the couple of hundred left went on Christmas presents for my family. To Ringo I gave him a Lacksley Castell discomix that I had wanted over £100 for.

Bob Harding wants to puke but pays himself over £500 a week for being MD for B&F. I don't think I've ever earned that sort of money in my life. I published the Dennis Brown book from money left to me from the sale of my mother's house when she died and have not seen back a fraction of what it cost me in terms of paper, gold embossed cover, binding and printing. It took me a year to write, assemble. proofread and print. I did this because I loved Dennis as an artist and a good friend and didn't want to see him forgotten, as surely he would have been by now. Bob was glad to get my sleevenotes for his Jackie Mittoo CD, congratulated me on how good they were, paid me £600 for them and now won't even let me read his forum.

Of course I could send part of the monies received from these tapes to the artists concerned but it would be literally pennies. I charge this guy £30 for a 90 minute tape, less than £1 per tune. (He collects tapes and has stopped buying vinyl.) I wonder if Ernie B or Reggaemusicstore send some of their profits to artists. Many of the people who post on B&F make money in some way from reggae music. I earned small sums of money myself from reviews and interviews during my 30 years as a writer but no one ever asked me for a donation - in fact, certain producers offered me money to review their records but I always refused saying that I was paid by the publishers. I've never made much money from my interest in reggae music, but I've always loved it. I could have done a lot better writing about the kind of middle class white rock you seem to enjoy, but have preferred to discuss a music that's often been overlooked. I know Jamaicans in England and the Isle of Springs who have benefitted financially from my writings and thanked me for it. I believe you are paid well for whatever job you do, you certainly seem to have a nice house and pick up truck to go travelling in the Californian hills. You can afford to be generous, I still remember when that guy in Africa wrote to Blood And Fire begging music and everyone was rude to him except you, who actually sent him a pile of tunes. I literally cannot afford to be that generous. Nevertheless, my friends love me.

It's alright Bob wanting to spew but he's earning more money from this music than I have in more than 40 years listening to it. I've hundreds of Wailers tunes I could flog on ebay if I wanted, thousands of rare ska and rock steady sides. I'd like to go to Jamaica. I've never been. Maybe I should have sucked up to Blackwell like all those other journalists; none of whom are still around!

Penny Reel
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 04, 2006 10:28AM
"I still remember when that guy in Africa wrote to Blood And Fire begging music and everyone was rude to him except you, who actually sent him a pile of tunes."

My parrot wasnt rude too, there was another pkg posted to Africa.
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 04, 2006 03:32PM
*



Post Edited (02-04-06 08:06)
Josh
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 04, 2006 04:44PM
Glad you edited that Bufo because it made no sense at all.
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 04, 2006 07:29PM
*



Post Edited (02-04-06 11:42)
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 04, 2006 08:25PM
Now, its much better. Keep on posting Bufo.
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 04, 2006 08:29PM
Yes Reel, gwan go eat food off of a what you've built.
bless

Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 04, 2006 10:52PM
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 04, 2006 11:13PM
Glad you didn't edit your post this time Bufo cause it got much more sense.
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 04, 2006 11:19PM
how do you edit your post?
one love-juan love

Splish
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 06, 2006 01:12PM
"...I loved Dennis (Brown) as an artist and a good friend and didn't want to see him forgotten, as surely he would have been by now."

Dennis Who?... Oh yeah the guy in that book by Penny Reel...

Delusional at best.
jb welda
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 06, 2006 05:16PM
>In return for the Jimmy Smith CD you sent me, I sent you a Michael Rose single,
>four CDs of Bunny Lee material and a Slim Smith double CD featuring some of
>his greatest recordings.

you keep track of this stuff? i dont.

>you certainly seem to have a nice house

wrong. check my address again

>and pick up truck to go travelling in the Californian hills

wrong again about the pick up truck but yes i do spend time away from home if thats your point.

>You can afford to be generous

not really, but i do it anyhow in the spirit of sharing the music we all love. im not above selling records for big bucks if offered; however i insist on NOT taking money for digital copies of such records. ask around and you will find that true.

thanks for the explanations but to be perfectly honest, they seem more like rationalizations than explanations. profiting from others work still seems wrong to me. selling records themselves are one matter; selling *access* to those records just seems wrong.

oh well, i cant help what bob harding or anyone else including yourself posts here.

one love
jah bill
Dave Home
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 06, 2006 10:16PM
Hey Splish - if you must post nasty posts like that at least have the balls to use your real name.
Steven
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 07, 2006 09:56AM
"...I loved Dennis (Brown) as an artist and a good friend and didn't want to see him forgotten, as surely he would have been by now."

Dennis Who?... Oh yeah the guy in that book by Penny Reel...

Delusional at best.

Is that alright for you David?

BTW If you think that was a 'nasty' post you should get out more often.
Steven
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 07, 2006 10:45AM
And while I'm in the mood Dave, there was a recent post by The man transcribing some particularly 'nasty' anti-gay lyrics by the artist, Hammer Mouth. It appears to have been deleted but I can only assume you didn't see it as I'm sure you would have 'had the balls' to comment on that too.

While there is no crime in transcribing lyrics of any kind. I would question the author's motives for doing so.
Dave Home
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 07, 2006 01:01PM
Steven - When I say 'nasty' perhaps I just mean small-minded and petty. Like it or not Penny Reel has written intelligently about Reggae music for 30 years. His book about Dennis Brown is one of the best books about Reggae ever written.
Steven
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 07, 2006 02:57PM
David - I have not read the book so I cannot comment on that. However, I disagree that had it not been for the book, Dennis Brown would have been forgotten by now. That's my opinion. What's yours?
The man
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 07, 2006 03:14PM
Obviously, Dennis Brown would not have been forgotten Steve. My book was written to show just how important Dennis was in the scheme of things. It was my opinion that Mr Brown deserved the same prominence as Mr Marley, that is why the book was written.

Reel
Steven
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 07, 2006 04:41PM
Fair enough.
The man
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 07, 2006 05:29PM
OK Steve, glad we sorted that out.

Love
Reel
Steven
Re: Outer National Riddim: Tribute to Penny Reel
February 08, 2006 09:43AM
Me too. Can I have a free copy?
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