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"Bob Marley's father was White"

Posted by Chimino 
"Bob Marley's father was White"
February 28, 2006 09:40PM
In case you ever have the notion to use this factoid to make a point on this forum, please do us all a favor and....don't.
Thanks in advance.

Re: "Bob Marley's father was White"
February 28, 2006 09:42PM
Really, hmm...
Awsome
Re: "Bob Marley's father was White"
February 28, 2006 11:02PM
It's just not norval.
Re: "Bob Marley's father was White"
March 01, 2006 12:18AM
Why? its the truth
Re: "Bob Marley's father was White"
March 01, 2006 07:45AM
So is Chimino.
Re: "Bob Marley's father was White"
March 01, 2006 07:47AM
Matisyahu was Bob Marley's father??
Re: "Bob Marley's father was White"
March 01, 2006 08:35AM
<<<Why? its the truth>>>

Because Bob Marley's father was a white piece of upper-class crap who did not take care of his son, and Bob thought of himself within the context of Black Jamaican culture, not the white culture of his father. Also, many white people tend to use that as some kind of leverage or justification when people start talking about race, slavery, etc., especially within Rastafari, like, "I have a right to be here because..."

--------------------------------

Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 08:45AM
please epand your thought above so that we might better overstand your reasoning. statements like "many white people" are incompete they do not speak to race, culture, class etc and thus they are flawed. If you wish to explain why a crucial part of who Bob Marley was is not important then do so, but beware that you do not speak for him. WHo your father was is imprtant because, A he was part of your life or B he was not. Either way this has an impact on who you are.
papa ray
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 08:57AM
BM's situation regarding his biological father is a classic-capsule-example of how
race/class plays out in colonial&post-colonial societies: another way of saying
here's yet again an example of Dad being a s*** to a son he's sired. The refusal
extended, I understand, when BM made his one attempt to contact his father's
blood relation in Jamaica. I think part of what Chimino is saying is Bob
fulfilled his role on earth notwithstanding the sorry Englishman who rode thru 9 Miles and, biblically speaking, knew his mother, but not his son.
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 09:04AM
I thought Bob's father was a Chinese.
papa ray
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 09:21AM
Zoki, Zoki--- That wuz Yellowman. Mr. Chin, you can come right in.
jb welda
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 09:28AM
>white piece of upper-class crap who did not take care of his son

you mean as opposed to an honorable black man who has baby mothers all over the place and dont take care of those kids?

just wondering

one love
jah bill
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 09:41AM
nuff pickney a yard nuh know fidem fadda...a naw jus Bob one...know dat.
Larry Marshall seh: Whether you are black or you are white/it is you...
Re: &amp;quot;Bob Marley's father was White&amp;quot;
March 01, 2006 10:11AM
Good points JAH Bill and Stamina.

--------------------------------------

Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 10:16AM
Very true Papa Ray.

---------------

Re: "Bob Marley's father was White"
March 01, 2006 10:47AM
So if a black man fathers a half white baby does that mean the child is not half black? Does the father's ethical or non-ethical behavior effect what race their child claims?



Post Edited (03-01-06 21:54)

&quot;love shines brighter than the morning sun&quot;
buttah....
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 11:48AM
I think it goes more towards what they identify with. Although alot of black people have alot of skin color issues within the black race, they usually tend to be more accepting of others..hence one of the reasons that it seems to me that most mixed children lean towards the black side of their family tree.
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 11:59AM
"in other news, the percentage of whites who owned homes in 2005 continues to be higher than the percentage of blacks and hispanics for the same time period. Also, altho all violent crime is down the majority of those incarcerated in us prisons continue to be black men. Less than 1/3 of all new college freshman are black males while black females continue to surge upwards as it relates to college admissions. In further segregational and racist media coverage it is now known that had the Katrina victims been disproportionately white in ethnic background, they would have been saved before the hurricane even hit. Furthermore, we intentionally leave out asians, samoans, arabs, indians, pacific islanders & all other ethnic groups because they lack the exciting polarization and race card dynamics that we at the media so love to take advantage of. that's all for now, god bless & good night."
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 12:11PM
"the majority of those incarcerated in us prisons continue to be black men."

BG. Please enlighten us as to where you get this information which you claim to be news. While I realize that the incarceration rate of people of colour is much higher than caucasians, I find the notion that the MAJORITY of prisoners are black to be a bit difficult to swallow....
buttah....
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 12:11PM
speaking of media...
my son & i would volunteer with the city to help paint out graffiti & paint/clean elders houses---they would always film everyone doing good works...funny thing is the only ones they ever showed on the newscast were the white people. i asked one of the crewman about it one day (he was black--and he said he got frustrated by it often himself) I sent a letter of complaint to the news station in regards to only showing blacks & latinos in negative light but never showing the good works...needless to say I never heard anything back.
buttah....
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 12:14PM
[www.hrw.org]

here is one link to an article
buttah....
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 12:15PM
Out of a total population of 1,976,019 incarcerated in adult facilities, 1,239,946 or 63 percent are black or Latino, though these two groups constitute only 25 percent of the national population.4 The figures also demonstrate significant differences among the states in the extent of racial disparities.
***final paragraph of above link****
dr. lurkenstein
Re: &amp;quot;Bob Marley's father was White&amp;quot;
March 01, 2006 12:22PM
>>>>Author: jb welda
...you mean as opposed to an honorable black man who has baby mothers all over the place and dont take care of those kids?<<<<

--

I'm happy to see that this opportunity to slam Black men out-of-context was not missed.
jb welda
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 12:30PM
how exactly is it a "slam" (its a fact not a slam) and how is it "out-of-context" mr trollenstein?

never mind, dont bother.

one love
jah bill
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 12:31PM
I don't know what year those stats above are from, or how they were compiled them, but will confess that, though not the majority, the % is much higher than I had thought.

Jail Inmates, by Gender, Race, and Hispanic Origin, 2002
Male 88.4%
Female 11.6%
White 36.0%
Black 40.1%
Hispanic 18.5 %

[www.infoplease.com]
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 12:50PM
Daniel, maybe i didnt do a good enough job, but i was making a point of a racist media.
and i pulled those "facts" from no other place than my own head....just to make it clear, that the us media was, is and will continue to be racist.
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 01:00PM
I don't deny the premise of your point one bit Cody except the part about all Katrina victims being saved before the hurricane hit. I just like to see some facts along with assertions. We obviously did not have the infrastructure in place to remove all residents from N.O. before the storm hit, but agree that the post-hurricane efforts would have been much better.
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 01:10PM
butta, I don't think it has as much to do with the acceptance of black folks as it does the traditional exclusionary racism of white folks. Historically, if you were as little as 1/16 black, you were nonetheless considered 'black' and thus inferior by the white power structure, whether business or government.
jb welda
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 01:14PM
maybe im a little dense today but disregarding that you made up those "facts" b ghost, im afraid im not seeing what youre saying. for instance when you say:

>"in other news, the percentage of whites who owned homes in 2005 continues to
>be higher than the percentage of blacks and hispanics for the same time period.

are you saying this is what "the media" reports? or is this something you dont think the media reports?

if the former, i dont think they make up the stats...they come from somewhere. maybe your point is they choose to "report" this over something else?

>altho all violent crime is down the majority of those incarcerated in us prisons
>continue to be black men.

again is this what they report? do you not agree with the latter part? (i dont really see the connection between crime being down and who makes up the prison population)

>Less than 1/3 of all new college freshman are black males while black females
>continue to surge upwards as it relates to college admissions.

again is this what is reported? or are you saying maybe "the media" reports only the first part and ignores the second? or do you think the whole thing is made up? again, i think if this is being reported they are not making up the stats...but quoting them from some govt source (now we can agree on racist if thats the case).

>it is now known that had the Katrina victims been disproportionately white in
>ethnic background, they would have been saved before the hurricane even hit.

that is conjecture on someones part...we dont "know" anything because it was not like that. more likely, if all katrina victims had cars they would have split before the hurricane hit. that is, if they really believed government warnings which given the nature of most "warnings" these days, they may well not have, for good reason. there *is* that part, reported in the mass media, about emergency crews concentrating on affluent areas while leaving the poorer areas of town to themselves, but i read that in the media.

>we intentionally leave out asians, samoans, arabs, indians, pacific islanders &
>all other ethnic groups because they lack the exciting polarization and race card
>dynamics that we at the media so love to take advantage of

not so sure you can say that for sure either or what youre relating it to...katrina? again i bet its pulled straight from govt stats.

see i dont think "the media" (i dont think there is such a thing to tell the truth, at least not one that speaks with one voice) is overtly racist. they definately pick the stories to run and pick the angles to see things from but i think their sins are mostly sins of omission. and i think they are more interested in not offending advertisers than they are in slanting stories in a racist manner and $ guides their editorial policies to a large degree.

there is some questionable judgement as to what is "news" (as is noted above in the post about who they show fixing up houses for instance) but just as i dont think there is this "great liberal press" that the righties talk about, i also dont think there is this racist press you imply. certain publications and news broadcasts certainly lean one way or another but i think you make a mistake by painting them all with the same brush so to speak.

maybe im missing your point though so feel free to expand on it. again im not saying there are not racist undertones to a lot of stuff including the way the government presents slippery things like statistics, im just not sure i get the point of your post above and what you claim "the media" are responsible for.

one love
jah bill
buttah....
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 01:15PM
but in today's culture the 1/16 premise does not really make that much of a difference now..at least i don't think it does. but yes, way back when it made a huge amount of difference.
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 01:30PM
ha ha....i'm saying, why is it that everything presented to the viewing public has to be disected and segregated and separated into what the victims/perpetrators/home owners/prison population's racial background is? Dont you think if this unfortunate trend were to cease, that a lot of the racial bias that exists in this country would end? Everything you see presented thru media is a graph or poll or % of who does what, how much they owe, own or rob, and what color skin they posess. My point is, STOP THE SEGREGATIONAL AND INTENTIONAL POLARIZATION OF RACE in media, and let our children grow without preconcieved misconceptions.

sight?
buttah....
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 01:35PM
it is not going to happen...we can only wish & hope for the best...but in reality--it's not going to happen.
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 01:40PM
in other words = i was being sarcastic & didnt pick one "fact" from any govt literature. it was a joke. i was mocking the media...and laughing at them. poking fun. & yes, the media is most definately race biased by choice. Think of that show 'sex in the city." It is a type of media, watched by millions, and takes place in new york city. why then, do the producers of that show choose to blanket the screen with only whites? Walking down the city streets scenes yu see nothing but white people! IN new york city no less! At the basketball game, supposedly the knicks in this one i saw my woman watching recently, had an all white crowd watching an all white cheerleading squad. did not someone make that choice behind the scenes to "omit" the people with brown skin form all the scenes???? kinda strange tho isnt it, to not have any black people appearing in scenes that take place in new york city....ever!

just an example.
jb welda
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 03:09PM
>STOP THE SEGREGATIONAL AND INTENTIONAL POLARIZATION OF RACE in
>media, and let our children grow without preconcieved misconceptions

oh i gotcha binghi ghost and i can agree with that. i see where youre coming from more now. only thing i can say halfway in their defense is they gotta fill column inches/minutes with something and they sure as hell dont really want to tell us how the place is falling apart while they bs us that everything is cool. again i think thats more the govt behind that sort of thinking and the media are more or less just blindly reporting that. "blindly reporting"...thats where i think the problem lies more, no critical analysis, just repeating what they are told by a govt that doesnt want us to really know whats going on, that sort of thing. transcends race completely in my mind; they just dont want ANYONE to know.

as for your second post i hadnt really considered popular culture entertainment as "media". from where i sit "media" means news (quote unquote). as far as im concerned this entertainment stuff isnt worth the time it takes to watch it but you do have a point: a lot of people do watch it and it shapes their world view. but anyone with half a reality connect knows its all fairy tales anyway. hell we dont all live in leave it to beaver worlds and most everyone realizes that.

thanks for the reasoning star.

one love
jah bill
dr. lurkenstein
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 04:07PM
To JB Welda

1) How it's out of context:
The thread is about Bob Marley and his (non)relationship with his father. "Black Men" as a class were not the focus of the thread therefore dragging Black men in as a specious counter-point, was certainly out-of-context.


2) How it's a slam:
You cited this example of 'Black dysfunction' as if it were somehow a proven state and not simply a racist stereotype that is trotted out all too frequently. It was used as an ad hominem emotional dig at Black men as an identifiable 'dysfunctional' group.

Claro, mzungu?
jb welda
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 04:21PM
>1) How it's out of context:
>The thread is about Bob Marley and his (non)relationship with his father. "Black
>Men" as a class were not the focus of the thread therefore dragging Black men >in as a specious counter-point, was certainly out-of-context.

the context it was said in was in response to another post where someone was classified as a "white..." so it was quite in context. if you want to slam someone for being out of context, slam that person.

>2) How it's a slam:
>You cited this example of 'Black dysfunction' as if it were somehow a proven
>state and not simply a racist stereotype that is trotted out all too frequently.

again it was stated as a comeback to someone claiming something in a racial context. it doesnt need to be proven any more than you seem to think the original remark didnt need to be proven.

>It was used as an ad hominem emotional dig at Black men as an
>identifiable 'dysfunctional' group.

at this point im getting the idea you think "white" people cant be slandered but "black men" can. i would have to point out i find that highly racist in and of itself.

perhaps its restating the obvious to say that my point was there is enough guilt and wrong being done by all sides to not have any one side feel they can call the other on it. thats the whole problem with discussions like this: no one race has a corner on the righteous market nor on the badness market; theres plenty to go around for everyone.

one love
jah bill
dr. lurkenstein
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 04:25PM
>>at this point im getting the idea you think "white" people cant be slandered but "black men" can.<<

I indicated NOTHING of the sort.

>>no one race has a corner on the righteous market nor on the badness market<<

You've clearly decided to have this argument with yourself because this, again, is not a response to ANYTHING that I've typed.

Face it, you trotted out a racist stereotype and failed to wield it skillfully.
jb welda
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 04:32PM
face it, if wits were dynamite, you couldnt blow your nose.

good night and thanks for playing

one love
jah bill
dr. lurkenstein
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 05:02PM
You're just catching feelings because you got called on your racist bullshit.
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 05:03PM
all a wi come from africa in the beginning...
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 06:28PM
Why can't we all just skank along?
Re: &amp;quot;Bob Marley's father was White&amp;quot;
March 01, 2006 06:44PM
Ok everybody! into the gene pool! Mandatory interracial marriage! End racism in just a couple generations!
inspecta
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 08:08PM
RasCaliWolf, Brasil had that same theory several generations ago (going back hundreds of years, in fact), but the outcome was a larger brown population to downpress with racialism.
Re: &amp;quot;Bob Marley's father was White&amp;quot;
March 01, 2006 08:32PM
inspecta- are you from Brasil? Greetings! I know a couple of ladies from Brasil and though we have never discussed race issues in Brasil they have told me of grinding poverty and a post colonial euro-centric babylon system. I have always wanted to visit and love the music they have turned me on to. You know Cidade Negra? Great band! Wish they would come to the fest!

I would never actually support anything like mandatory marriage(just a likkle too irie tonight)...and as you pointed out, it would'nt do any good. There would still be class segregation, wage slavery, greed, hate, ignorance. So the system is what we gonna chant down!Forward Zion!
Re: "Bob Marley's father was White"
March 01, 2006 09:04PM
from Wikipedia entry on race:
Race in the United States
In the United States since its early history, Native Americans, African-Americans and European-Americans were classified as belonging to different races. For nearly three centuries, the criteria for membership in these groups were similar, comprising a person’s appearance, his fraction of known non-White ancestry, and his social circle.2 But the criteria for membership in these races diverged in the late 19th century. During Reconstruction, increasing numbers of Americans began to consider anyone with "one drop" of "Black blood" to be Black.3 By the early 20th century, this notion of invisible blackness was made statutory in many states and widely adopted nationwide.4 In contrast, Amerindians continue to be defined by a certain percentage of "Indian blood" (called blood quantum) due in large part to American slavery ethics. Finally, for the past century or so, to be White one had to have "pure" White ancestry. (Utterly European-looking Americans of Hispanic or Arab ancestry are exceptions in being seen as White by most Americans despite traces of known African ancestry.)
The difference between how Native American and Black identities are defined today (blood quantum versus one-drop) has demanded explanation. According to anthropologists such as Gerald Sider, the goal of such racial designations was to concentrate power, wealth, privilege and land in the hands of Whites in a society of White hegemony and White privilege (Sider 1996; see also Fields 1990). The differences have little to do with biology and far more to do with the history of racism and specific forms of White supremacy (the social, geopolitical and economic agendas of dominant Whites vis-à-vis subordinate Blacks and Native Americans) especially the different roles Blacks and Indians occupied in White-dominated nineteenth-century America. The theory suggests that that the blood quantum definition of Native American identity enabled Whites to acquire Indian lands, while the one-drop rule of Black identity enabled Whites to preserve their agricultural labor force. The contrast presumably emerged because as peoples transported far from their land and kinship ties on another continent, Black labor was relatively easy to control, thus reducing Blacks to valuable commodities as agricultural laborers. In contrast, Indian labor was more difficult to control; moreover, Indians occupied large territories that became valuable as agricultural lands, especially with the invention of new technologies such as railroads; thus, the blood quantum definition enhanced White acquisition of Indian lands in a doctrine of Manifest Destiny that subjected them to marginalization and multiple episodic localized campaigns of extermination.

Race in Brazil
Compared to 19th-century United States, 20th-century Brazil was characterized by a relative absence of sharply defined racial groups. This pattern reflects a different history and different social relations. Basically, race in Brazil was recognized as the difference between ancestry (which determines genotype) and phenotypic differences. Racial identity was not governed by a rigid descent rule. A Brazilian child was never automatically identified with the racial type of one or both parents, nor were there only two categories to choose from. Over a dozen racial categories are recognized in conformity with the combinations of hair color, hair texture, eye color, and skin color. These types grade into each other like the colors of the spectrum, and no one category stands significantly isolated from the rest. That is, race referred to appearance, not heredity.
... The Brazilian census lists one's race according to the preference of the person being interviewed. As a consequence, hundreds of races appeared in the census results, ranging from blue (which is blacker than the usual black) to green (which is whiter than the usual white).
However, Brazilians are not so naive to ignore one's racial origins just because of his (or her) better social status. An interesting example of this phenomenon has occurred recently, when the famous soccer player Ronaldo declared publicly that he considered himself as white, thus linking racism to a form or another of class conflict. This caused a series of ironic notes on newspapers, which pointed out that he should have been proud of his African origin (which is obviously noticeable), a fact that must have made life for him (and for his ancestors) more difficult, so, being a successful personality was, in spite of that, a victory for him. What occurs in Brazil that differentiates it largely from the US or South Africa, for example, is that black or mixed-race people are, in fact, more accepted in social circles if they have more education, or have a successful life (an euphemism for "having a better salary"winking smiley. As a consequence, inter-racial marriages are more common, and more accepted, among highly-educated Afro-Brazilians than lower-educated ones.
So, although the identification of a person by race is far more fluid and flexible in Brazil than in the U.S., there still are racial stereotypes and prejudices. African features have been considered less desirable; Blacks have been considered socially inferior, and Whites superior. These white supremacist values seem to be an obvious legacy of European colonization and the slave-based plantation system. The complexity of racial classifications in Brazil is reflective of the extent of miscegenation in Brazilian society, which remains highly, but not strictly, stratified along color lines. Henceforth, Brazilian's myth of a perfect "post-racist" country, composed of the "cosmic race" celebrated in 1925 by José Vasconcelos, must be met with caution, as sociologist Gilberto Freyre demonstrated in 1933 in Casa Grande e Senzala.

Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 09:05PM
now playing:

"White Survivors", "Europe Unite" and "European Herbsman"

Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 09:06PM
BG - I kinda thought the Katrina bit made it obvious you were joking winking smiley

"Ok everybody! into the gene pool! Mandatory interracial marriage! End racism in just a couple generations!"

ROFL! Then we'd all have nice tans. If only these things were so simple...like taking all the radical fundamentalists/racist bigots and sticking them in the middle of what they fear most without any resources. They'd be so busy trying to get by that a few generations later things would iron themselves out.

I'm also joking...
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 09:32PM
Yes Malcom! I can't believe how much I am learning here- this is the best chatroom I visit! Oh, wait- this is the ONLY chat room I visit!

Dubguy- what is ROFL? I know LOL, but me not know this ROFL? Right now I gotta get my dictionary and look up "miscegenation"...

Chimino: By now you must know Bob the Builder does the sarcasm around here. But your post to Stamina about Ashkenaz origins was excellent. Thankyou.
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 01, 2006 10:11PM
"Rollin on the floor laughing "- try it in a IM window and ya get smiley laughing very hard =D
Translucent
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 02, 2006 12:49AM
Being from Brasil, I can testify that the "Race in Brazil" piece above is largely true. Now, inspecta, that long-ago racial program was actually intended to "cleanse" the population by whitening the masses's skin color through interacial offsprings.

RasCaliwolf, Cidade Negra was indeed a crucial roots band over a decade ago, but after the then lead singer Ras Bernad left the band, the group went pop with the new vocal and it has remained so eversince. For a real taste of Brasilian roots reggae try TRIBO DE JAH, which was roots back then and has remained roots to this day. Dem r crucial!! Dem tour the four corners of the globe often and would be indeed a great addition to the SNWorldMusicF line up! Right now, a band called "Ponto de Equilibrio" (Point of Balance) is exploding onto the national scene. Their reggae is one of the greatest roots reggae I've ever heard. Crucial lyrics pon crucial riddims.....truly and deeply heartical music. Should the I be interested, I'll forward you a copy of their first album.

Guidance
Maconha
Translucent
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 02, 2006 01:29AM
"Point of Equilibrium" that is...
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 02, 2006 05:14AM
ROFLMAO in front of the stage at the Annual Bob Marley Fest in Austin.





&quot;love shines brighter than the morning sun&quot;
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 02, 2006 05:49AM
and bob marley's mother is black, jamaican and an african....
inspecta
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 02, 2006 06:25AM
Tagging along to Translcent's point:

The royalty of Portugal regarded Brasil as "the black spot on the crown of the portugese empire" because there the Black and Indian populations outnumbered whites so dramatically... 12 to 1 in many places.

So, the governors of Brasil mandated that 'all respectable white men breed with African and Indian women with the goal that within 4 generations everyone would be white'. That's the "cleansing" that Translucent was referring to.

The result, however, was not a 'whitening' of Africans and Indians, but a 'browning' of Europeans.

It's said that the Portugese royalty got the blessings of the then-current Pope but I've never actually seen proof of that. Some say that it was expressed in a Papal Bull but that's all I know. I believe it, but I haven't seen it proven.

As for color and class in Brasil... middle-class Brasilians are almost uniformly whiter than the almost uniformly brown-black residents of the Favelas.

Go to Bahia and visit the poor areas, you'll wonder where the "white" people are. Visit the commercial district in Bahia and you'll find them.
Tja
Re:
March 02, 2006 06:29AM
I think what is important to acknowledge when engaging racial dialogues, is that we all come from a particular "conditioned" mind set based on our own distinct cultural experiences. Race, wether we like it or not, often plays a huge factor in determining how we tend to percieve things (and people).

We often think of groups like the kkk, the nazis, and the skinheads as "overtly" racist, and true enough they are...but what is most insidious, is the form of racism that is "covert." The kind that lies just beneath the surface and is deeply afraid to be seen for what it truly is. This kind of racism often fails to acknowledge the great BIG ELEPHANT standing in the middle of the living room, and will go to great legnths to prove that it doesn't exist and/or is a thing of the past. It is a huge blindspot in the minds of many who fail to acknowledge it as a contributing factor in sustaining the tenets of systemic and social racism.

Generally speaking, most whites have an extremely difficult time confronting their complicity in this arena, and often get quite defensive when the surface of their own biases are scratched. Many make light of the situation because honestly, they are in a position that - can. Hence, all the jokes and knee-jerk reactions to a situation that is all too often a very serious reality for many that is NOT to be taken lightly.



Post Edited (03-02-06 06:38)
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 02, 2006 09:23AM
<<<< Generally speaking, most whites have an extremely difficult time confronting their complicity in this arena, and often get quite defensive when the surface of their own biases are scratched. Many make light of the situation because honestly, they are in a position that - can. Hence, all the jokes and knee-jerk reactions to a situation that is all too often a very serious reality for many that is NOT to be taken lightly.>>>>

Yes I. Well spoken.

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Re: &amp;quot;Bob Marley's father was White&amp;quot;
March 02, 2006 10:51AM
"As happened in Bosnia, in Iraq mixed marriages and shared memory of coexistence will not be enough to stop internecine violence"- Vali Nasr, Adjunct Senior Fellow with the Council on foreign relations.

There is ample evidence that "most whites" are complicit in the "insidious" and "covert" forms of racism right here in the bay area. Just visit the bayview/hunters point area of SF, then take a short drive to Walnut creek, or Danville in the east bay. Segregation by race is obvious. Also, one can use subtle cultural cues in language or dress, regardless of skin tone, to reveal the predjudices of others, of any race, that they are not aware of, especially in a job interview. This is perpetuated in part by the miseducation of the youth by the babylon school system. I still believe that the solution is to break down the barriers, not strengthen them. Macom X said somthing to the effect that "Black superiority is just as dangerous as white superiority". We are aiming for equality. Further polarization is not going to help move us toward equality. J72 mentioned somewhere that we must be guided by love-"let all your affairs take place with love" (1Corinthians 16:14) So I say again that the youth must be taught the truth! Eventually the world will be brown (again). Meanwhile we fight hate with love. Fight ignorance with truth. Fight greed with modesty. And try to pay the rent somehow...

TRANSLUCENT: Thanks for the Brasil roots music insights. InI would very much appreciate it if you would forward me the first Ponto de Equilibrio album! e-mail me direct if you like. If you are interested, I can send you a rare CD of a drum troupe from Guinea West Africa that I co-produced a few years ago. They were spectacular. Much thanks!
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 02, 2006 11:55AM
It's like that AA mantra....first step toward solving your problem is admitting you have one. Most white folks are too fearful/guilt-ridden of their own prejudices (and power within those prejudices) to even admit they have a problem.

Tja
Re: &amp;quot;Bob Marley's father was White&amp;quot;
March 02, 2006 01:38PM
"first step toward solving your problem is admitting you have one. Most white folks are too fearful/guilt-ridden of their own prejudices (and power within those prejudices) to even admit they have a problem." Truth!

It is certainly no easy thing to admit to being part of the problem. Most folks would much rather swipe all that nasty history under the rug and move onto the "why can't we just all get along" rhetoric. But the fact remains that UNTIL history is properly engaged... "status quo" (ignorance) will continue to reign.

Look, it's not as if one has to deny and put down who they are racially speaking, nor is it about causing divisions and separations amongst various groups of people. It's about acknowledging the different experiences that contributed to "how" and "why" people came to be. To ignore this is foolish and quite arrogant I might add.

It would be wonderful if we could all just get along and love each other but that's just wishful thinking. People (generally speaking) are very dishonest in how they relate to each other and often settle for lies at the expense of the greater truth. That's why we keep spinning on lip service going round and round nowhere fast. Each situation however, provides the opportunity for change, as for every action there is a reaction.

Hopefully ones who are willing to confront their own biases honestly will raise the bar of personal responsibility & accountability towards their own actions and ripple the effect to a higher and ultimately collective level.

Then unity, peace and one-love would be quite in order.
Re: &amp;quot;Bob Marley's father was White&amp;quot;
March 02, 2006 04:22PM
why don't we just kill all the white man?


[www.killallthewhiteman.com]

Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 02, 2006 04:43PM
Question is, are white folks gonna be ABLE to change?
[blackpeopleloveus.com]
pale ryder
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 02, 2006 04:59PM
White man know yourself. Create your own defenition of cool, you don't have to let everyone else tell you...You will never be black, but you can always keep it real...
Re: &amp;amp;quot;Bob Marley's father was White&amp;amp;quot;
March 02, 2006 07:50PM
ROFLMAO!
Translucent
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's father was White&quot;
March 02, 2006 08:19PM
Yes inspecta, respect.

Crucial posts Tja! Word up!

Crucial words from RasCaliWolf as well! Check your email bredren.

Consciousness cover the earth...
Maconha
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