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"Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"

Posted by mike turner 
"Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 01, 2006 11:03AM
Dunno what Chimino's point was in his posting exactly, but it reminded me of another interesting 'factoid'.

An unnamed source in the reggae world told me that he was recently contacted by a grand daughter of Bob Marley's uncle, i.e. Bob Marley's father's brother. This woman, who lives in the States, had recently been researching the family tree, and has discovered that the Marleys had a large amount of Ashkenazi Jewish heritage.

Sort of interesting - lost tribe of Israel and all that.
The man
Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 01, 2006 11:07AM
No wonder he got on well with Chris Blackwell, descendant of the Lindos, wealthy Portuguese Sephardic Jews

Who's this "unnamed source", Mike?

Observer
jb welda
Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 01, 2006 11:08AM
so your point is bob marley has come back as matisyahoo?

one love
jah bill
Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 01, 2006 11:09AM
seems about right to me we all knew he was from ancient roots
one love
Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 01, 2006 11:09AM
that was funny

respect
Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 01, 2006 11:11AM
I told you Matisyahu is Bob Marley's father.
The man
Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 01, 2006 11:12AM
Of course he was Jewish. His earliest known ancestors were Adam and Eve.

Observer
buttah....
Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 01, 2006 11:43AM
elvis is/was my cousin..does that make any difference? ;0)
Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 01, 2006 11:44AM
Bubby Marlinsky
Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 01, 2006 12:12PM
Ashkenazi & other European Jews are not original Israelites.

Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 01, 2006 12:31PM
<<<<<<<<<<<Ashkenazi & other European Jews are not original Israelites.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


True.

--------------------------

a
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 01, 2006 01:21PM
is Ashkenazi some sort of bay area reggae club? a
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 01, 2006 02:09PM
dam! ya'll r hilarious...



--
blessid love
ras danny
higher reasoning reggae time
KBOO Portland, Full Strength Community Radio
*Love is a net that catches hearts like fish.*
-Muhammad Ali
*I don't like reggae, I love it*
jb welda
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 01, 2006 02:49PM
the ashkenaz is the berkeley club. dont know the origin of the name as it applies there.

one love
jah bill
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 01, 2006 03:32PM
Dunno what Mike Turner's point was in his posting exactly, but it reminded me of another interesting 'factoid'.

An unnamed source in the reggae world told me that he was recently contacted by a grand daughter of Bob Marley's uncle, i.e. Bob Marley's father's brother. This dreadlocked white pinguin, who lives in the States, had recently been researching the family tree, and has discovered that the Marleys had a large amount of Buffalo Bill/Greenland pinguins heritage.

Sort of interesting - lost connection between bird and humans and all that.
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 01, 2006 04:24PM
J72 (sounds like a car not a person) you know this is true how? Chimino?
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 01, 2006 05:08PM
from africa
Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 01, 2006 05:30PM
From The American Journal of Human Genetics, March, 2006:

"The maternal origins of Ashkenazi Jews remain obscure but a 2006 study by Behar et al that examined mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) (which can only be passed from mother to child and is therefore used to trace maternal origins (female ancestors)) indicated that about 40% of the current Ashkenazi population are descended matrilineally from just four women. These four "founder lineages" were "likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool" originating in the Near East that migrated to Italy in the first and second centuries CE. According to the authors, "The observed global pattern of distribution renders very unlikely the possibility that the four aforementioned founder lineages entered the Ashkenazi mtDNA pool via gene flow from a European host population."

Both the extent and location of the maternal ancestral deme from which the Ashkenazi Jewry arose remain obscure. Here, using complete sequences of the maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), we show that close to one-half of Ashkenazi Jews, estimated at 8,000,000 people, can be traced back to only four women carrying distinct mtDNAs that are virtually absent in other populations, with the important exception of low frequencies among non-Ashkenazi Jews. We conclude that four founding mtDNAs, likely of Near Eastern ancestry, underwent major expansion(s) in Europe within the past millennium.
A 2002 study of Ashkenazi maternal lineage by Goldstein et al found that "the women's origins cannot be genetically determined", but that "his own speculation" was that "most Jewish communities were formed by unions between Jewish men and local women".

A 2000 study by Hammer et al indicated that the Y chromosome of both Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews is of Middle Eastern origin, similar to DNA types of Palestinians, Lebanese, or Syrians. Since the Y chromosome can only be passed from father to son, it is used to trace paternal lineage (male ancestors). In this study, the male ancestors of the Ashkenazi population were traced primarily to the Middle East."

Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 01, 2006 06:13PM
Stamina, some important words that need to be looked at in this report, such as "LIKELY of Near Eastern ancestry", "his own SPECULATION", and again, "LIKELY from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool".

I am not an expert enough on the subject to say either way, but from the little I have looked at it does seem that European Jews are not the same Jews of the original Israelite nation. So if you or Chimino could enlighten me some more it would be appreciated.

--------------------------------------------



Post Edited (03-01-06 21:29)
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 01, 2006 06:15PM
Ashkenaz is an old Yiddish term meaning "Germany".
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 01, 2006 06:26PM
I read somewhere that the person who founded Ashkenaz was of Ashkenazi decent, hence the name of the venue. Peace



Dr. Suess (aka Ras James)
Irie Sounds International
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 01, 2006 08:24PM
So what is the point of bring this up- unless it will help bring unity among JAH's
Children! Having a pro-active mind is how change can come!

JAH BLESS & Guide
Kufunya
Re: &amp;quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&amp;quot;
March 01, 2006 08:51PM
I have a friend who is Ashkenazi. She just arrived here from Israel a few weeks ago and comes to Yoga classes at my house once in awhile. Apparently her ancestors fled the nastys in the 1940s, and I have asked her about her heritage cuz I am into people in general, and I knew about the info in Stamina's post about her being descended from four original matriarchs... She is about 20 years old and told me her Grandmother tries to tell her stories and teach her about the old days but she is not much interested. ("it is boring"winking smiley Right now she is into America and the glamourous sheen of that image. (Paris Hilton is cool?!? Wait til I tell her Bob was her cousin!) So Babylon materialism continues to erode the roots. Teach the children the truth! Like Kufunya say-Keep the mind pro-active! Unity! And learn about your roots! Like roots-ee say: FROM AFRICA. All Jah children.
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 01, 2006 08:57PM
Re: &amp;quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&amp;quot;
March 01, 2006 09:15PM
Respect Chimino. Excellent post.
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 01, 2006 09:59PM
Ashkenazi Jews have a much higher risk rate for certain cancers. Just an interesting tidbit since Bob died of cancer.



&quot;love shines brighter than the morning sun&quot;
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 01, 2006 10:07PM
DNA evidence is pretty hard to dispute. That aside, I always find it funny when these so called experts start saying things like:

"The mainstream of Jewish migrations did not flow from the Mediterranean across France and Germany to the east and then back again. The stream moved in a consistently westerly direction, from the Caucasus through the Ukraine into Poland and thence into Central Europe."

Wtf? For one thing - his sense of direction is a bit off - the Ukraine is pretty much due north from Israel/Palestine, why the hell would they be coming from France? For another - as the DNA evidence points out - it doesn't take a "major migration" in order to establish a genepool. We tend to think of things in terms of todays population.

The tribes of Judea are ancient - not very hard (imo) to imagine the roots branching off in many directions. Could people from the middle east have migrated north - absolutely. Come on now - Genghis Khan roamed all over Eurasia in a relatively short time, ancient cultures were not as isolated as people always assume.

Wanna trace the Celts back? You can go all the way to Egypt and Gaodhal Glas. It ALL goes back to Africa, so one could argue that all migrations spiraled out from there, and ANY tribes/cultures were very much an afterthought (so to speak)...
Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 02, 2006 05:35AM
The risk and progression for certain kinds of cancer is different by race. Race as well as equal access to healthcare both play a big role in the survival of cancer patients of different races.

One example is that African Americans are less likely to get skin cancer but more likely to die if they do because of the disparities in their ability to get screened and treated. So, what I am saying is genetically some races are more prone to certain cancers and even when genetic risks are equal, some racial groups will also have higher mortalities because they are less likely to get screened and treated. Hopefully, that will change. The organization I work for is trying to find more screening for the uninsured. Although the way health care is going in the US, we might all find ourselves unable to get screened and treated. I am part of a large group going to Washington DC in September to meet with legislators on the behalf of health care legislation for cancer patients.

just in case one of you knows someone in need or help:

for anyone looking for information on cancer diagnosis, treatment, free patient programs, support,... or needs screening; call 1-800-227-2345. That number is the national cancer information center, 24/7, also offering smoking cessation counseling. Lung cancer is the number one cancer killer for both men and women and the most preventable.

I think about Bob Marley every day in my work.



Post Edited (03-02-06 05:36)

&quot;love shines brighter than the morning sun&quot;
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 02, 2006 06:28AM
Just checked the link Chimino has posted. Koestlers "The Thirteenth Tribe" is translated here in Serbia, well-documented and well-written book. As for its todays importance:

[www.christusrex.org]
The man
Re: &amp;quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&amp;quot;
March 02, 2006 06:51AM
I read Koestler's book about 25-30 years ago. In it he says that the Ashkenazi Jews are in fact Khazars, who converted to Judaism about 1,000 years ago. That's why many Eastern European Jews have reddish hair and light complexions, not something you'd expect to find in a people supposedly from the Middle East. It's a fascinating book that may or may not be true.

More pertinent is what happened to the ten missing tribes. After the death of Solomon, Israel was divided into two, with the former kings, from the tribe of Judah, and their friends the Benjamites, forming one half, known as Judah, and the other ten forming the other part known as Israel.

Israel was sacked by the Assyrians and the ten tribes scattered, while Judah remained intact. The remaining people took the name Jews, or were given it, because they were from Judah. Judah equals Yid or Jew, and it is these folk who are the ancestors of today's Jewish population.

But my point remains: whatever happened to the ten Hebrew tribes after the Assyrian attack: all the Reubens, Simeons, Levis, Isaachars, Zebuluns, Daniels, Gads, Napthalis, Josephs and Ashers? Were they subject to genocide at the hands of the Assyrians or are they perhaps today's Norwegians, Basques and Slavs?

Observer
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 02, 2006 08:01AM
Incidentally, Koestler is one of my fav. writers, and Ive got quite of his books here with me.

Mr Reel, your question "But my point remains: whatever happened to the ten Hebrew tribes after the Assyrian attack" is basically a racially oriented question, and consequently of no interest (Im following Koestler in this line of argumentation) to claryfing up the problem of "Jewry" and "Jewishness" of Hebrew people. The primary distinguishing mark of the Jew is his religion, not his genes or genetic pool. And as for 'the distinctive Jewish genius', Koestler claimmed (and I think he's right) that its the result of envirenmental pressure, that the stimulus of high environmental pressure has produced a greater proportion of intellectuals among Jews than among their host nations.

Here is an excerpt from Koestler's "The Trial of the Dinosaur":

"Racial anthropology is a controversial and muddy field, but there is a kind of minimum agreement among anthropologists on at least two points: [a] that the Biblical tribe belonged to the Mediterranean branch of the Caucasian race, and that the motley mass of individuals now spread all over the world and designated as "Jews" are from the racial point of view an extremely mixed group who have only a remote connection, and in many cases no connection at all, with that tribe. The contrast between the short, wiry, dark-skinned Yemenite Jew who looks like an Arab, and his Scandinavian co-religionist is obvious.

When the fallacies of racialism have been discarded, all that survives of the Biblical race is probably a statistically very small "hard core" of genes which in segregated Jewish communities keeps "Mendeling out", as the biologist says, in curved noses and wistfull irises. But even regarding such facial features it is difficult to distinguish between true heredity and environmental influence. The fairly uniform facial changes of priests living in celibacy, of actors, of convicts serving long sentences, and other types of "professional physiognomies" could easily be mistaken for racial characteristics; and the growing likeness of ageing married couples is an equally puzzling confirmation of the feature-forming power of shared environment."
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 02, 2006 08:05AM
Oupps, how I did that bold letters?
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 02, 2006 08:35AM
When you did the letter 'b' in brackets, that changed the type to bold.
The geneticists disagree with Koestler's argument. Otherwise, the genotypes of the Ashkenazi Jews would have more in common with say the descendants of the Cossacks than with Middle Easterners.
Koestler wrote some great stuff but he's mistaken here.
The man
Re: &amp;quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&amp;quot;
March 02, 2006 08:45AM
'Darkness At Noon' is a great book.

Observer
Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 02, 2006 08:52AM
Ive read it while serving the Yugoslav Army... Quite a place for reading the book with such title.
Re: "Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish"
March 02, 2006 09:17AM
"Peace be upon you. In the next dimension there shall be neither Jew nor gentile, rich nor poor, free nor bond, man nor woman. Spread the good news ... and while you do this, don't forget to help the sick and strengthen those who are fainthearted and fear-ridden. I will be with you always, even to the ends of this urth." And when Eagle Feather Brother had thus spoken, he vanished from their sight, while the women fell on their faces and worshiped in silence.
<><><><>
Acknowledging the 10,000,000 equally blessed tribes
Ovah

Re: &quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&quot;
March 02, 2006 07:32PM
Bless You Ovah!! Great message!!!!

Kufunya
Re: &amp;quot;Bob Marley's ancestors were Jewish&amp;quot;
March 02, 2006 07:51PM
Ho!
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